Vote count.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by 542thruNthru, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Poop Head

    Poop Head Troll

    There was one guy, who said he did a "strategic non-vote"

    Does that count as a vote?
     
  2. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    IMHO
    Apathy through demoralization through lack of solidarity and lack of unity is a real problem with unionism today.

    Selfishness and a materialistic, “how much money I make” culture is ultimately the cause of many of these problems within unions today.
     
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  3. MyTripisCut

    MyTripisCut Dumpster, INABAG

    Love this thought. I have a hard time finding what I need on the spot due to the shear volume of the contract, then add in a supplement and label every topic as vaguely as possible. I read the contract a lot, but to memorize it seems daunting. I feel like it’s not even in a logical order, just a huge amount of rules and loose ideas strewn over 200 pages.
     
  4. I think you should have realized that from the contract vote.
     
  5. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    In a world absolutely governed by money and production, I'm not sure what you expect. I, for one, think it would be splendid if all the PTers became ruthlessly 'selfish' and 'materialistic' and enjoyed full solidarity from the rest of us FTers. Talk of unity and solidarity rings hollow when a minority of us are able to afford decent lives while the majority dine on the scraps.
     
  6. Many of the part timers don't want to go out driving...
     
  7. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    I need to think on this post before I comment further but I do have one question?

    Are you and all that makes you a person including all your feelings, thoughts, and actions absolutely governed by money and production?
     
  8. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    There's also an element of inertia involved. I think enough people are just fine with the way things are, or don't believe any changes , one way or the other, will make much difference, they have no reason to take action.

    The reason I continue to point to leadership is because this sort of thing is right out of the totalitarianism play book. As long as the masses still have something to lose, they are not likely to risk making changes, or more likely to trust those in authority positions to make decisions. This is a herd mentality phenomenon. It is exploited by corrupt people in authority positions to do pretty much whatever they want. This is one reason why I put much of the responsibility on the shoulders of leadership.

    I don't deny the accountability of the individual, however. It is just as much the responsibility of each person to do their civic duty, vote, be involved and keep the "leaders" honest. Those who don't are likely to reap what they sow, but they also drag those who are involved down with them.

    In our own interests, what can we do to whip our fellow members into shape? How can we encourage more involvement? My main tactic is to try to win people over, one at a time as they each run into a situation that adversely impacts them. I help them through the situation, then I try to help them connect the dots between the situation that affected them and increasing their involvement. My thinking is that this will motivate them intrinsically because they have an experience to draw from that they will want to take action to avoid in the future. But this process is very slow going, so I am open to any other ideas.
     
  9. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Been toying around with the idea of making a quick reference guide/index/concordance to make it easier to find language in the contract. It would also include explanations on the interpretations of the language, hopefully with references to applicable panel and arbitration decisions. This is something I think would be cool to organize and divvy up different sections to anyone interested in helping. If anyone likes the idea and wants to help, let me know.
     
  10. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    Isn't this a moot point? Even if they did, there were not be enough driving positions. Regardless, it's only the arbitrary whims of the market and contractual agreements between UPS and the union that say a PTer's job is worth considerably less than ours.
     
  11. People don't vote and the company knows this
     
  12. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    You swapped terms here. I said the world is absolutely governed ... not me as a person. Even so, I think each of us, myself included, is far more governed by the dictates of money and production than it's pleasant to admit, and the parts of us that aren't matter to us, sure, but have little bearing on the world. Who isn't dependent on the global market at this point?
     
  13. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    True, but the labor movement's strength was never in casting ballots ... major improvements were won by taking the initiative, often in defiance of union leadership as well as, of course, company mgmt.
     
  14. Speak your mind in 2021
     
  15. Poop Head

    Poop Head Troll

    That would require a vote.
     
  16. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    There's no danger I won't, haha. After 2 decades in the workforce I've learned not to expect much.
     
  17. Only had about a 20% voter turnout last
    time
    Let's declare an impasse
     
  18. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    It's a sad equation that 'speaking one's mind' gets reduced to casting a vote. I have no interest in quibbling re: voting or not voting, just saying that voting is a pretty limited activity.
     
  19. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    Also: if people aren't voting -- and this is the case in national political elections too --, why is this so easily diagnosed as laziness and irresponsibility? To my mind there's a strong argument that people's lack of enthusiasm reflects the shoddy quality of the options offered to them. We might just as well count a decent percentage of the non-votes as votes of no confidence.

    For example, those of you who read that article posted last night re: Amazon delivery drivers: there was an interesting tidbit about a small shop where drivers voted to join the Teamsters. And guess what happened? They all got canned, and the NLRB failed to have their backs (surprise surprise!).
     
  20. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    Part timers and full times don’t vote.