Vote count.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by 542thruNthru, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. I
    Even the few protections workers did have in the Gilded A

    I thought similarly about the free speech & taxes comparison you mentioned, but instead of taxes I thought about my HOA dues, lol.
    Even the few protections workers did have in the Gilded Age, aka Golden Age of Capitalism, they were rarely enforced and when challenged in the courts, labor never won.

    I've followed Janus and have a good grasp on it but I don't hear much of any repercussions from it yet? Too early to tell or have a negative impact?
    I thought similarly about the free speech & taxes comparison you mentioned, but instead of taxes I thought about my HOA dues, lol.

    I know a lot of folks gripe about living in CA, and I have my own but I am grateful at how pro-union we are, but I constantly say that can't be taken for granted.
  2. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    After thinking on the matter some more, it occurs to me that fear is probably the most effective way to overcome people's apathetic inertia. It is used constantly by politicians to get people to support them and their agendas. I am not a fan of the idea, as it is often dishonest and manipulative, but if it is the only option to get people involved, it is worth discussing. What do union workers fear most?
  3. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Like I said @zubenelgenubi

    Most don't care until something like that happens.
  4. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Right, they fear management, and the potential loss of their job, more than just about anything else. Management plays on that and keeps them cowed. Perhaps we could get them to fear their own spinelessness more? Show them they don't have to be manipulated? I don't know, just spit ballin'. If we don't at least try to come up with a solution, we may as well just accept the inevitable end of the era of unionism in the US.
  5. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Getting members to fear something is manipulating them. I want the members to be more involved but I don't think a shop steward should ever manipulate the members. It's a slippery slope and members should always feel they can trust their stewards.
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  6. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I agree, and I wouldn't want to go that path either. Although it might be possible to do so and maintain honesty and integrity. Also, trustworthiness is kinda hollow when it is coupled with ineffectiveness. But I'm just trying to talk through the issue from the various angles.

    The problem is that not only is management ok with manipulating and fearmongering, but it is their primary MO. When companies use such an effective tool to keep members complacent, what can be done to combat it? Even our culture informs us that it is normal and maybe even good to fear your boss. Appealing to a person's virtuousness might work on an individual basis, but not so much on a large scale.

    Maybe the answer will be through attacking and altering the culture that encourages fearfulness.
  7. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    Exactly. The good old days weren't so good. Still, in some ways I think they were better: the workforce was less pacified and, at times, capable of taking concerted, autonomous action to (try to) improve their lives.

    It seems public sector unions haven't lost members in the wake of Janus. They just lost nearly all the dues-payers who never joined the union but were forced by law to pay 70-80 percent of regular dues. As someone who loathes being managed, I think the unions missed a golden opportunity to stop slowly fading away and at least go out with a bang. Okay, the government says we shouldn't be forced to pay membership fees against our will, even if the group we refuse to join and don't want to financially support provides outstanding benefits. Fine, we all get a choice whether to pay our taxes. HOAs too, haha. Hint: I will not be paying the government: the problem of Janus really resolves into this -- no taxation without representation isn't sufficient. Representation should not be coercive. Union representation is a minor case to me (let me be clear here, I am a dues-paying member!) compared to the government's representation of 'us'.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  8. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    @542thruNthru You can go to a credit union and create a “Vacation fund” for your coworkers that people can contribute to but not eligible to withdraw on until the expiration date of the contract. (It is not wise to call it a strike fund thus the name “Vacation fund”). Speaking from experience don’t expect many people to do that either.
  9. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I put together an actual Table of Contents for the Master. I think it is better than the index format they used. There are a few articles that contain unrelated language, and some that have sections that really should be in other articles. I made some notes that should be helpful. I posted it in its own thread, but I'll upload it here too. Hope it helps, let me know what you think.

    Attached Files:

  10. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    "And the Teamster Trade Unionist award of the month goes to...."


    For.... not only helping himself, but offering the same help to others.
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  11. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    I like it, I truly do.

    ....but it pales comparison to a digital (pdf) version of the contract on any device capable of downloading a (pdf) file and has a search function.


  12. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I agree, I like having the contract on my phone. It never hurts to have more tools in the tool box.
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  13. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    Damn...and I thought you memorized the whole book!
  14. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    Our votes do not matter any more. The last 2 contracts have showed this. Many people simply don’t care because as they see it, there is no point.
  15. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

  16. The 2013 contract was actually voted in even though we had less than a 40% turnout. The 2018 had a little more people vote but it was voted down and imposed on us. Of we get enough people to vote maybe we will get a better contract next time?
  17. B-Brown

    B-Brown Member


    And, where was your :censored2: in 2013 when we voted the contract down?
  18. It wasn't voted down in 2013
  19. B-Brown

    B-Brown Member

    No? It was a figment of our imaginations?