Vote count.

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by 542thruNthru, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I will never deny anyone the dignity of their struggle.
  2. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    @zubenelgenubi FWIW I think you've captured an essential hurdle: contentment breeds complacency. Someone wisely warned that it was not enough for workers to demand a fair day's pay for a fair day's work, but that we should go ahead and insist on the abolition of wage labor altogether. It's a darkly comical fact of history that some Roman slaves were fabulously wealthy.

    I don't consider myself a leftist because I think the Bill Gateses and David Abneys of the world are more preoccupied with the whims of the market than I am ... to me capital(ism) is not a conspiracy of evil fat-cats, it would do no good to chop off the leaders'/owners' heads and run the factories, warehouses, governments ourselves (let alone have the Party run them on 'our' behalves!) ...

    We've learned to equate freedom with the ability to buy many, if not all, the things that tickle our fancy, but is that freedom? I don't think the ability to buy houses, cars, fancy dinners, nice clothes, vacations, blah blah blah has much at all to do with the ability to affirm and take responsibility for oneself ... but, y'know, Fight Club ruined me on this society at age 17 and consistent reading of Nietzsche did the rest ...
  3. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    What actions have you taken to make things better?
  4. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    Again, what have you done to initiate positive change in your culture?

    Wondering are you anti-union?
  5. Jkloc420

    Jkloc420 Well-Known Member

  6. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Well said. As long as there is life, however, there will always be work to do. Wages are simply the most efficient way to exchange work for the essentials for living. We can't all be completely self sufficient until we solve the problem of free energy. Until then it behooves each of us to get the maximum return for our efforts.

    We do have freedom through our right to determine our level of involvement in the market place. We can learn to make do with less and minimize the amount of work we have to do. I don't look at "bums" as a problem, necessarily. The homeless and hungry have avenues available to them. As far as I can tell, though, a large portion of the transient population has chosen the lifestyle over trying to fit into the rat race. As long as they don't violate anyone else's rights, they have the freedom to live that lifestyle, and that is a wonderful thing. We are ensnared only by our own expectations.

    I appreciate the philosophy presented in Fight Club, as it challenges the consumerist culture (and the ennui that comes with it), and shows us one way to escape it. But it also shows the consequences and hardships involved in making that choice, so that maybe we can appreciate the relative comfort that we earn for ourselves.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  7. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    Are you asking for a resume?
  8. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

  9. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    With that sort of brain power, and command of the English language....

    The best you can do.... is work at UPS ?

    Why aren't you "running the show" in your Local ?

    That sounds insulting.

    But, it's a legitimate question.

  10. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I'm writing the next Great American Novel. UPS keeps food on the table, plus it's a great work out. I come here when I get writer's block. My interactions here help me with character development. I can't commit more time to anything else at the moment, but once I'm published, who knows?

    Disclaimer: the novel thing isn't exactly true, but it's close enough that it should answer your question satisfactorily if I am to give you the benefit of the doubt and take you at your word that you weren't just being insulting.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  11. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Came across this gem. Thought it would help to put some perspective on this issue of lack of member involvement.

    “Interactions with people are the major source of emotional turmoil, but it doesn’t have to be that way. The problem is that we are continually judging people, wishing they were something that they are not… We want them to think and act a certain way, most often the way we think and act. And because this is not possible, because everyone is different, we are continually frustrated and upset. Instead, see other people as phenomena, as neutral as comets or plants. They simply exist. . . Work with what they give you, instead of resisting and trying to change them. Make understanding people a fun game, the solving of puzzles. It is all part of the human comedy.”

    Robert Greene: The Laws of Human Nature
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  12. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Also, don't take my last response as me saying I would be running my local if I were just able to focus my attention on doing so. Though I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of running for higher offices in the union in the future.
  13. Brownslave688

    Brownslave688 You want a toe? I can get you a toe.

    Attitude reflects leadership ;)
  14. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    Stop blaming your coach for your teams :censored2:ty play.
  15. Whither

    Whither Scofflaw

    Ok. Then no dossier. You will have to take it on good faith that I am more interested in the well-being of us working stiffs than the union, which may or may not have our interests at heart.
  16. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    You're passionate and it shows. It's not a bad thing

    Members show a vested interest when they feel it's something that affects them. Yes they will come to you first when they feel you know what you're talking about but getting them to take the extra step in getting involved usually involves a career threatening/changing event in my eyes.

    The contract is a legal document. They are never simple. I disagree with your reasoning why people are apathetic. From my experience and the posts I've read on here most think of the union like they think of any service based industry. "I paid my money. I'm the customer now serve me!" To the average member a steward is a lawyer they think is on retainer. He/she should work constantly to make sure their needs are met. Not realizing these people deal with multiple problems a day and also have the same job and a life outside of it. It's your livelihood. Why would you not try to read the contract... because it's easier to make your steward/BA do it. That's what you pay them for right? (Sarcasm)

    200 pages long? That's just the Master. Mine is almost 400 pages. Now add in all the rest.

    BAs have a tough job. I'm not trying to make excuses for the bad ones but when you think about the number of people that come to you in a week. Think about multiplying that my 10 and all expect results with in the day. The average member has no idea how their union even works. Again it's the service industry all over again. "I have a problem it's important and it needs to be handled ASAP!" not realizing it's like the court system. Things take time and something's take precedent over others.
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  17. Integrity

    Integrity Binge Poster

    Didn’t think you ever took action.

    Are you anti-Union?
  18. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the thoughtful response. I don't disagree with any of it, though I would say that though the union isn"t a service, it is an agency. The union is there to represent the member's and their interests. I think of it more like an agent for a sports star.

    The difference is the sports agent represents a handful of clients and they all pay a much larger percent of their negotiated salary so that agent can give them personal attention. The clueless members expect to be treated like the sports stars, but in a sense, you get what you pay for. I do think we get a great deal for what we pay, but it is made possible, in a large part, by the uncompensated efforts of the involved members.

    If we helped people adjust their expectations, and lower the bar for them to understand their rights (by putting the information in a form that is accessible to the lowest common denominator), I think that would be a great start to rallying the membership.
  19. MyTripisCut

    MyTripisCut Dumpster, INABAG

    I also believe that the company creates an environment that harbors Teamster vs. Teamster. And they ultimately win when that happens. Members have to embrace each other, runner gunners, slugs, Diad holster wearers, PT, FT, feeders and so on, or we all lose. The only ones to exclude are safety committee wannabe management types.
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  20. 542thruNthru

    542thruNthru Well-Known Member

    These people are a menace