what do part timers want in 2013

[brown_trousers]

You have to understand the principal of "delayed gratification".

I worked part-time for 8 years.... While working a 40 hour a week job in construction.... for 8 years....

And then, did side jobs on the weekend.

If you have a work ethic.... as you say.... Suck it up. Quitting will only contribute to the 80% turnover rate for part-timers.

And the reason, UPS avoids wanting to do anything for the part-timers during negotiations.



-Bug-

Well not everyone wants to be just like you Bug. We all choose what areas of UPS we want to work in, then we only ask that we get fair compensation for the kind of work we do. Some of us choose to go driving, and others choose to work inside jobs. Some of us choose to remain PT, and others choose to go FT.

Despite what area in UPS a person works for, there is a fair wage that should be expected. And part-timers are not making a fair wage considering the hard work it is. Also considering the HUGE wage difference between inside PTers and inside FT combos that do the exact same work.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

^^^

Sure, we work only a fraction of the hours, and I promise you its no easier then what a driver does.

Ok



-Bug-

 

[NJx89]

You have to understand the principal of "delayed gratification".

I worked part-time for 8 years.... While working a 40 hour a week job in construction.... for 8 years....

And then, did side jobs on the weekend.

If you have a work ethic.... as you say.... Suck it up. Quitting will only contribute to the 80% turnover rate for part-timers.

And the reason, UPS avoids wanting to do anything for the part-timers during negotiations.



-Bug-

Lol only an idiot would suck it up. This nothing to do with my work ethic, it has to deal with the fact its simply not worth the time invested (as you say, 8 years) at crap wages for the hard work we do. The turnover rate is the way it is because of the pay. Not because people are lazy. It simply is a waste of time to stay there unless you have no other options.
And you defend ups a little too hard. ups avoids helping pters more because they are gonna leave? that is precisely the reason they leave. The reason they don't pay us more is they don't have to and it saves them money. not because people leave anyway what kind of logic is that lmao. You act like they want to give us more, but we all just quit anyway, boohoo for ups. That is simply not reality. They don't pay us more because they can.

 

[ftballer67]

Exactly. I'm sorry but it's ridiculous when I'm working next to someone who does the exact same job as I do but makes twice as much per hour and over three times as much per year with nearly the same seniority simply because they started in a building that had full time preload that no longer exists. I would do unspeakable things for that position, even if it was a split shift. Hell I'd be thrilled just to have my wage split the difference between myself and the inside full timers, even if I stayed part time.

 

[Inthegame]

And I pointed out the fat ceo bonus as a way of saying "hey look where a bunch of last years revenue went." 70% increase to 10 mil means he was at around 6 mil last year? 4 mil could go a long way to improving the pay of alot of people, and it just goes to show there's more to go around then what they'd like have to us believe.

If you divided Scott Davis's total compensation and gave it to part timers it would increase their annual paychecks less than $75.

Lol only an idiot would suck it up. This nothing to do with my work ethic, it has to deal with the fact its simply not worth the time invested (as you say, 8 years) at crap wages for the hard work we do. The turnover rate is the way it is because of the pay. Not because people are lazy. It simply is a waste of time to stay there unless you have no other options.
And you defend ups a little too hard. ups avoids helping pters more because they are gonna leave? that is precisely the reason they leave. The reason they don't pay us more is they don't have to and it saves them money. not because people leave anyway what kind of logic is that lmao. You act like they want to give us more, but we all just quit anyway, boohoo for ups. That is simply not reality. They don't pay us more because they can.

Actually you have the idea a bit twisted. They can pay more but they choose not to. Wages are minimums and when unemployment is high, wages stay low. Pt'ers are getting underpaid compared to Ft's however UPS isn't suffering lack of applicants so they accept the high turn over rate. Here's the deal...You have a legitimate point. But complaining on BC isn't getting your concerns to those that can effect change. In the time it takes to write a BC blog, you could have eloquently expressed your concerns in a letter to your Locals Principal Officer. CC a copy to hall, newly elected GST. If your Local is unresponsive, let Mr Hall know that as well. It takes involvement to get things changed on any level. Contract negotiations will start soon. Get a good turnout of pt's at your proposal meeting and don't be shy.

 

[brown_trousers]

Lol only an idiot would suck it up. This nothing to do with my work ethic, it has to deal with the fact its simply not worth the time invested (as you say, 8 years) at crap wages for the hard work we do. The turnover rate is the way it is because of the pay. Not because people are lazy. It simply is a waste of time to stay there unless you have no other options.
And you defend ups a little too hard. ups avoids helping pters more because they are gonna leave? that is precisely the reason they leave. The reason they don't pay us more is they don't have to and it saves them money. not because people leave anyway what kind of logic is that lmao. You act like they want to give us more, but we all just quit anyway, boohoo for ups. That is simply not reality. They don't pay us more because they can.

I agree with you mostly, except for that its not all UPS's fault that part-timers make such low wages. Its our union that fails to negotiate anything but poverty level raises for us.

When it comes to negotiating time, the teamsters know that they are only going to get so much out of UPS each contract. and they figure that by shrinking the part-timers portion of that pie they can give full-timers a bigger slice.

Just compare the last 5 contracts the teamsters have negotiated for us. Full-timers have seen their wages almost tripled (200% increase) through negotiations, meanwhile part-timers arent even keeping up with inflation let alone minimum wage.

and its not starting wages that are the problem, its that even with a good amount of seniority, we arent seeing decent raises

 

[NJx89]

I agree with points made by both bt and inthegame. From a business standpoint, I see why they do it. Why pay more if you don't need to? I'd just think they would reward the pters who do their share of hard labor a little better for sticking around. The inflation in combination with shrunken hours is just killer. The check i got in my first year seems to go just as far as my check now does and it's just frustrating I guess. If I at least got the 4 hours a day I was told at hiring I would be fine, but I don't and the sups go out of their way to even shave off what little time they can be overloading us with work every night. I was hired during a peak season of '10 and I was fairly satisfied at the time I suppose. I was also in small sort so it was pretty easy, only stress was missorts every once in a while. On the sort aisle its just ludicrous the way we are treated and the work environment. It has literally been impossible for me to find a daytime job at this point, everything clashes with my ups twilight shift, and I did try working overnight for several months since it was the only job I could find, but it was really rough having that odd schedule (6pm-6am). My body clock never really adjusted well. Plus it was seasonal.
Also, I tried to switch to the day-shift at one point for college, but I was given the runaround and I was young, naive, and dumb thinking that anyone else would really care about my priorities. By the time i spoke to the union to get the process really started it was too late because they stalled me for so long. (i had to pickup daytime classes that conflicted with preload because I waited to register for classes and they filled) There was no night time hr at the time. She was actually a sup who was on her way out the door acting as the night time hr just referring information to the daytime hr who controlled everything, and my sups didn't want to lose me because I was the best bagger in small sort at the time. So through their powers combined! (and me not knowing alot of information i needed to/naive) They screwed me lol. I basically bet all my chips on getting my fafsa back that semester without reimbursement and since then i've basically been attempting to save scraps to go back since I'm like one B away from getting my fafsa back. I accept my faults for the situation I'm in, but my sups have really gone out of their way to keep me screwed.

 

[Inthegame]

I agree with you mostly, except for that its not all UPS's fault that part-timers make such low wages. Its our union that fails to negotiate anything but poverty level raises for us.

If you've been around for five contracts you should know the history of part time employees at UPS shows few make it a career. Your pie analogy is somewhat accurate so why would the union push for greater part time wages for those who don't work for a career and lower wages for those that do?
"fails to negotiate anything"??? It is most definitely UPS'S "fault" that part timers wages are where they are. Do you think in your wildest dreams the union asked for two tiers back in '82? Do you think the union proposed lower wages for pt's? Where did 22.3 language come from? Benevolence of UPS? You're living in fantasy land.

 

[brown_trousers]

If you've been around for five contracts you should know the history of part time employees at UPS shows few make it a career. Your pie analogy is somewhat accurate so why would the union push for greater part time wages for those who don't work for a career and lower wages for those that do?
"fails to negotiate anything"??? It is most definitely UPS'S "fault" that part timers wages are where they are. Do you think in your wildest dreams the union asked for two tiers back in '82? Do you think the union proposed lower wages for pt's? Where did 22.3 language come from? Benevolence of UPS? You're living in fantasy land.

everyone who pays union dues deserves equal representation from the union even if they are a more temporary work force.

back in the old days unions believed that everyone deserves fair wages based upon the work they do, yet the full-timers, with way more active union members, have seized control and created a disparity that deprives seasoned part-timers from recieving a fair wage for the work they do.

the part-timers have been oppressed for so long that they no longer have any interest in the union or participating in it unless they are forced to by law.

There was a time, I read about, that FT and PT were all very active. And even given a RTW choice, a part-timer would have likely chosen to join the union. But decades of imbalanced union negotiations have weakened the teamsters to a horrible point. And now those part-timers that are blessed with that decision choose not to join.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

After five years with UPS, I was making $15 an hour part-time with full benefits for 49$/mo dues. I don't see why part-timers are so unhappy, honestly. Paid vacations, sick days, etc etc....

 

[uber]

After five years with UPS, I was making $15 an hour part-time with full benefits for 49$/mo dues. I don't see why part-timers are so unhappy, honestly. Paid vacations, sick days, etc etc....

How did you make $15 an hour?

I've been with the company 5 years and make $13.07

Lucky to get 20 hours a week.

 

[Inthegame]

everyone who pays union dues deserves equal representation from the union even if they are a more temporary work force.

back in the old days unions believed that everyone deserves fair wages based upon the work they do, yet the full-timers, with way more active union members, have seized control and created a disparity that deprives seasoned part-timers from recieving a fair wage for the work they do.

the part-timers have been oppressed for so long that they no longer have any interest in the union or participating in it unless they are forced to by law.

There was a time, I read about, that FT and PT were all very active. And even given a RTW choice, a part-timer would have likely chosen to join the union. But decades of imbalanced union negotiations have weakened the teamsters to a horrible point. And now those part-timers that are blessed with that decision choose not to join.

Representation comes from having a union in place. Good representation comes from getting active and involved in union matters and electing good leaders. Unions do believe in fairness and fight against inequities every day, but too many members today, especially pt's, don't understand the necessity to stand up for themselves. Unions only are as strong as the involved members.
If full timers seized control as you alledge, its only because of part time apathy. How does 40% control 60%?
There was a time when people stood together for the common good of all, risking their lives for union rights. Many lost their lives providing future generations the contracts you benefit from. I guess if you think it's a "blessing" to be a freeloader and not pay the little dues for the complete package and opportunities the union negotiated contract allows, there's little more to say.

 

[Miss K]

I agree $00.90 with no splits

 

[UPSGUY72]

How did you make $15 an hour?

I've been with the company 5 years and make $13.07

Lucky to get 20 hours a week.

You have a PT job... PT jobs are for people that go to school and want to make a little money, people that want a second job, or people that don't need a FT job to survive.

PT jobs are not designed for people that don't want to work 40 hrs can live a comfortable lifestyle....

You new when you applied for the job it was going to be 20 hrs a week job so stop using you lucky to get 20 hrs a week excuse.

You get the same benefits that FT get. Most places that hire PT employees don't give them benefits unless the law tell them they have to. You also get discounts on a lot of things (cell phone service to be one).

 

[hembone]

You have a PT job... PT jobs are for people that go to school and want to make a little money, people that want a second job, or people that don't need a FT job to survive.

PT jobs are not designed for people that don't want to work 40 hrs can live a comfortable lifestyle....

You new when you applied for the job it was going to be 20 hrs a week job so stop using you lucky to get 20 hrs a week excuse.

You get the same benefits that FT get. Most places that hire PT employees don't give them benefits unless the law tell them they have to. You also get discounts on a lot of things (cell phone service to be one).

Exactly, that's why they call them part-time jobs.

 

[brown_trousers]

You have a PT job... PT jobs are for people that go to school and want to make a little money, people that want a second job, or people that don't need a FT job to survive.

PT jobs are not designed for people that don't want to work 40 hrs can live a comfortable lifestyle....

I didn't realize you were the authority on defining what is and what isn't. I could just as easily define it as something else.

You new when you applied for the job it was going to be 20 hrs a week job so stop using you lucky to get 20 hrs a week excuse.

With that attitude, unions would never have been created in the first place. The whole point of the union is to change the workplace for the better. If we never pushed for changes, and always just accepted the job as it was when we were hired, UPS would be a drastically different workplace and all FTers would be grossly underpaid and overworked (even more than they are now)

You get the same benefits that FT get. Most places that hire PT employees don't give them benefits unless the law tell them they have to. You also get discounts on a lot of things (cell phone service to be one).

So now we're suppose to base our wages and benefits off what others make in the same industry? By that logic, all full-timers should take a drastic pay-cut and benifits-cut to be on par with what drivers at FedEx and DHL make.

 

[UPSGUY72]

I didn't realize you were the authority on defining what is and what isn't. I could just as easily define it as something else.

I sorry you out of touch with reality.

With that attitude, unions would never have been created in the first place. The whole point of the union is to change the workplace for the better. If we never pushed for changes, and always just accepted the job as it was when we were hired, UPS would be a drastically different workplace and all FTers would be grossly underpaid and overworked (even more than they are now)

Again people that work PT time at UPS know from the start that they are NOT guaranteed 20 hours a week. PT job are to supplement FT jobs or retirement or for people that go to school that want to make a little money. UPS is never going to start PTimers out making to much more than minimum after a couple of years PT are making pretty good money for PT work and get great Bennys

So now we're suppose to base our wages and benefits off what others make in the same industry? By that logic, all full-timers should take a drastic pay-cut and benifits-cut to be on par with what drivers at FedEx and DHL make.

I didn't say that you did... I said that in addition to pay UPS give PT great benny's. There are PT that make over $20 hr.

Your saying that UPS driver are overpaid I didn't.... I don't care what Fed Ex, or DHL drivers or there PTimers make if they unionized maybe they would make more.....

 

[upsman2940]

Look almost drivers put their time till a ft position opened up, at the same wages that ptmers are making now. I always looked at as ups college without the student loan debt! Maybe there is some traction in the ptmers getting a healthy raise.... Maybe that two- tier system so many talk about is the key to make those that want fairness. Back to my pt I've heard RUMORs just all of you have... Maybe those raises y'all so desperately talk about will come with consequences! How many of you would like to start out at $15 then you go ft the top rate would be say $25. You don't hear any career part timers complaining! We have a few in our bldg that make $25 plus. Just think about all the money you will lose if this happens! Just a thought about something I heard today!

 

[curiousbrain]

Look almost drivers put their time till a ft position opened up, at the same wages that ptmers are making now. I always looked at as ups college without the student loan debt! Maybe there is some traction in the ptmers getting a healthy raise.... Maybe that two- tier system so many talk about is the key to make those that want fairness. Back to my pt I've heard RUMORs just all of you have... Maybe those raises y'all so desperately talk about will come with consequences! How many of you would like to start out at $15 then you go ft the top rate would be say $25. You don't hear any career part timers complaining! We have a few in our bldg that make $25 plus. Just think about all the money you will lose if this happens! Just a thought about something I heard today!

As an opinion, I agree with the general spirit of this - no company will ever cough up exactly more than they have too; and the moment they do, they will sneak around and try to offset it somewhere else. Maybe UPS will juggle the FT/PT and play them off each other - it might not be too hard considering you have two groups of people with two different goals, represented by a single national organization. Divide and conquer.

Even more machiavellian, UPS will slash and burn costs before the negotiations ever start, in anticipation of possible (note: possible) concessions; if those concessions take place, great, they are already covered; if they do not, reflect that gain in top management bonuses and return on investment.

Maybe I am a little too cynical, though.

 

[UPSGUY72]

Look almost drivers put their time till a ft position opened up, at the same wages that ptmers are making now. I always looked at as ups college without the student loan debt! Maybe there is some traction in the ptmers getting a healthy raise.... Maybe that two- tier system so many talk about is the key to make those that want fairness. Back to my pt I've heard RUMORs just all of you have... Maybe those raises y'all so desperately talk about will come with consequences! How many of you would like to start out at $15 then you go ft the top rate would be say $25. You don't hear any career part timers complaining! We have a few in our bldg that make $25 plus. Just think about all the money you will lose if this happens! Just a thought about something I heard today!

UPS is never going have starting PT pay of $15 hr unless minimum wage is $15 hr.... Economics drive the amount UPS and any company pays it's employees whether they are in the union or not it also the same thing that determines whether or not you can live off what UPS is paying you... PT or FT...

I suggest that if someone is really unhappy about how much they make as a PTimer starting out at UPS maybe they should look around at other unskilled PT jobs and see what they start you out as, what benefits they supply at what cost to you and what your chance for advancement are.... Good luck.