Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[Damok]

Nothing worth having is easy, so stop shaking in fear and ask for a better deal. I'm guessing the have a fallback postion to this B.S. offer, its not the worst offer but i hope they underestimated us dumb truck drivers and we have the cojnes to ask for a better deal.

*sigh* Why do you assume it's fear? You seem like to like calling the manhood of people into question when they don't agree with you and while funny, it doesn't do much to move your case along.

 

[Captain America]

*sigh* Why do you assume it's fear? You seem like to like calling the manhood of people into question when they don't agree with you and while funny, it doesn't do much to move your case along.

I am just trying to shock some people out of there mental ruts and stop thinking that the sky will fall if we don't aprove this deal. UPS and the Teamsters control so much of what hapens in our lives that I think some people will maybe go against one but not the other and more will just go along if both are involved. There you caught me, I am not sneaky enough or willing to lie about it if pressed even a little how manly is that? Crap I sure am introsepective tonight, time for some t*tt*es and beer. Well maybe a beer and probably none of the other I am married. Cya

 

[livinitup]

Went to our contract review meeting today....

The first words out of the mouth of our local president was,"Thank you for coming here today. I'd like to start of this meeting by saying we are not here do debate this contract, this meeting is only to help you understand the language to help you make an informed decision.


I tried to ask about the new language that says they are taking some new part-timer's benifits for the first year of their employment.

Immediately he jumped all over me. 1

Then all hell broke lose....a few of the other members started yelling and using profanity showing there general dissent for the attitude of our president.

I proceeded with my original comment, realizing at this point that this is not an informational meeting, and quoted the contract verbatum.

His response, which was a little more civil this time, was that they part-timers inour supplemental agreement will not lose there Health Care for the first year, but would lose any sick pay, holiday pay, and wouldn't receive any vacation for the first year. However, that in other parts of the country all new part-timers lose all the above plus their health car for their first year and the first 18 months for their family.

The president became increasingly combative with each additional question each member asked.

Needless to say it became a debate about not only the monetary benefits in the contract but also other issues; like no new full time jobs, language allowing company to DISCHARGE drivers after first offense based exclusively on GPS information.

In general the union thinks this is the best contract we are going to get in today's market.

Other issues brought up:

Starting part-time wages frozen at $8.50 for life of agreement.
California's Minimum wage wil be $8 Jan. 1, 2008.

New 9.5 language which requires you to opt in or out of 9.5 list, which if you opt out you will be suck working over time for 5 months to cover those on the list. My suggestion would be for everyone to sign the list and then they will have to force the low seniority drivers to work overtime, but at least they will be getting paid triple time to do it.

Language which would allow the union to reallocate the general wage increases to the pension funds, which are not funded under the law, which will take effect on Jan. 1, 2008. It also states that they may reallocate pension increases back to the general wage increases. Again, this language doesn't apply to me because my supplement has a mantinence of benefits clause.

I suggest you read it and then vote how ever you want.

I will vote no.

 

[705red]

True, in theory we have until July 31, 2008...But how long will it take to get another agreement? Do you know it would be done and ratified by 8/01/2008? Customers will get scared if they hear the tentitive agreement was voted down. Customers will leave between the no vote and until a contract in ratified.

Why is everything always our fault? If we vote this contract down its because we are not happy with it, and we should not vote for it because we might lose some business over voting it down. I would rather lose some customers than some of the language that we could lose over by voting yes! You cannot be a driver as you claim, you have to be a sup pretending to be a driver.

 

[diesel96]

We've got till July 31st, 2008( more than 9 months) to ammend this contract to something that shows some type of reward for the employees who have helped UPS record profits of 4 BILLION dollars last year. More than enough time to get it settled without businesses diverting. Too much vagueness, not enough BITE.

Boku's post #338 was right on, you had to of been living under a rock during the year of the strike. The Customer's livelyhood and security being infringed upon before and during and after the walkout has lingered throughout the business community and helped precipitate the rise and insurgents of our competitors. If your willing to think for one moment that business won't be diverted, then you my friend are guilty of leading your sheep to the slaughter house. Are you doing your "new hire" or newbie part timer wanna-be full timer justice by influencing them to their own damnation by a "vote no" campaign ? Meanwhile, lavishing with enough senority and job security that if we take a major hit, your still secure. Forewarned, besides loss of volume, our economy has a bleak outlook IMO and Mr Greenspan's, for the length of this contract. I suggest everyone think long and hard on your vote, especially those of you hovering on the mendoza line of being layed-off or progressing into full time opportunities.

 

[Cezanne]

Whether you vote NO or YES is your own individual decision, saying that I HATE it when members base their choices based on unsubstance FEAR AND HEARSAY. Please everybody study the lanuage in the Master agreement and ALL the supplements, can you live with it for the next 5 1/2 years and do you throughly understand what you are voting for.

I personally see alot of unanswered questions about this UPS/IBT pension plan, and I will not keep repeating myself by posting them again. I will be down at the hall today to attend the contract meeting and hope to get my questions answered, but from previous direct contact with our officials I do not expect any resolution or concrete answers. Just from talking to my fellow brothers and sisters in my local which is in the Central States debacle, I am getting the impression that most are voting down this contract. The higher the seniority and involvement with union business the more angry they are, it may be resentment from what happened LAST CONTRACT and it is pay back time. I have come to the conclusion just from the inadequate informaton given that the benefits with this new IBT/UPS pension plan is substandard to the amount of compensation and concessions given under Master lanuage. Bottom line is we are not going to get our money's worth and will be force to settle with peanuts. For those who are inclined to vote yes, please do not start bellyaching when you see our Western Conference members retire 2 to 5 years from now collecting twice as much for the same number of years. It will happen.

Also consider what kind of job most of us have with UPS. What does it do to you physically and will you make it to the age requirements and benefit levels to make livable pension benefit. For us with 25 or 30 and over fifty we understand the day is coming when you can not do this job and we have seen what happens to the stray sheep that can not keep up with the herd. What are the permanent disability statistics for UPS employees who reach the ages of 50 to 57 and just how much are they collecting with their reduced disability pension benefits? I would imagine that those figures were formulated by the bean counters who will set up and control this new pension plan.

This pension meeting will be interesting and I will give up the details, guessing that it will turn into a yelling match and drag on for hours.

 

[gandydancer]

For UPS to get new hires now, they have to offer earn and learn program. Give them $200.00 bonus if they pass a sort test. Offer a shuttle service for people who dont have means of transportation.

I hope this is sarcasm.

Why would you think so? We had shuttles, bonuses for no lates during peak, bonuses for sticking it out for a period of time, etc., here. Taking part of employee's pay out from under the contract and making it discretionary on the part of management could become more and more of a practice as the contractual starting pay becomes less and less competitive. Think about it.

 

[gandydancer]

The 9.5 language in Art. 37 will not apply to us here in Denver because we have better language in the Supplement and the National language in this case will not supercede our supplement.

Better check that. Article 37 says specifically that you will lose the right to grieve under any Supplement, Rider or Addendum if you opt in to working more than 9.5.

 

[Damok]

...There you caught me, I am not sneaky enough or willing to lie about it if pressed even a little how manly is that? Crap I sure am introsepective tonight, time for some t*tt*es and beer. Well maybe a beer and probably none of the other I am married. Cya

That was awesome As a fellow married man I feel your pain.

 

[tunemixer]

We also had a meeting about the contract yesterday with our BA. Unlike the meeting that LIVINITUP had ours was much more under control and informative.Without going into lots of detail and ouple of things that were posted above were discussed in detail with us. The firing for the GPS thing mentioned. Yes they did say somebody could get fired. BUT they also said that would ONLY be if the driver LIED about it. A driver could get fired for lieing about anything they did wrong and got caught at. If the driver told the truth there would be a warning letter.
The 9.5 issue. He also explained that if you do the LONGEST route in the building and are ALWAYS out more than 9.5 - 10 hrs you can't expect to fall into this catagory which makes lots of sense.
He went over just about everything and come to the conclusion the contract wasn't all that bad. It was about 80% of what the 1997 contract was. He also said the TEAMSTERS did just what the members asked for when negotiating this contract. In a survay of what was most important to us 1st was Pension 2nd Heath and Welfare and 3rd was Money.
I believe our BA is an honest and trustworthy person. I am a driver of almost 24 years . I have seen him work for the memebership .I do trust he is looking out for out best interests.
He also went over the suppliment which he thought wasn't that good. I am a member of local 597 so no need to go into any of that.
One more thing . We had a very poor showing. This is our future. And anybody that doesn't go to the meeting if they set one up is not helping them selves. They would have no right to bitch.I encourage EVERYBODY to take part in these meetings. You might not like what you hear BUT you will hear it from the horses mouth and NOT from anybody on this site . Although we have many smart posters we all read things differently and not everything applys to each one of us.
I am keeping an open mind about this whole thing.I'm not going to panic and go off half cocked because nothing is in concrete yet.And if it happens that things don't turn out the way I like them. What am I suppose to do? I don't have to like everything that happens but I do have a living to make and a family to take care of. It could be a lot worse.

 

[tieguy]

I am just trying to shock some people out of there mental ruts and stop thinking that the sky will fall if we don't aprove this deal. UPS and the Teamsters control so much of what hapens in our lives that I think some people will maybe go against one but not the other and more will just go along if both are involved.

Do you think the customers will stay put or return if you vote this one down and drag things out until july 31st?

 

[705red]

Do you think the customers will stay put or return if you vote this one down and drag things out until july 31st?

Tie maybe ups should have thought about that before they offered this deal. Why should i suffer to help this company prosper any more? I already sacrafice my week by not seeing my family, and now i should accept a contract that i am not willing to work under? Tie you are not sacraficing this language for your lively hood, as a matter of fact this will give you more power as a sup.

 

[tieguy]

Tie maybe ups should have thought about that before they offered this deal. Why should i suffer to help this company prosper any more?

I'm sorry I didn't realize you were making such a sacrifice. Could you show me some pics of the sweat shops you toil in and do all this suffering?

I already sacrafice my week by not seeing my family,

Perhaps some pictures of the chains we hold you with to keep you locked up here away from your family?

and now i should accept a contract that i am not willing to work under? Tie you are not sacraficing this language for your lively hood, as a matter of fact this will give you more power as a sup.

Red kind of dissapointing I thought you were much more level headed, never realized you were such a drama queen.

 

[blue efficacy]

Yeah, that $28 bucks an hour sounds like a sweet deal, that is until you're moving 180 stops (270 pieces) of resi off your truck every single day. Only then u understand UPS is getting more than their moneys worth out of u. Ask the drivers on industrial rtes delivering 400+ pieces while picking up 800-1200 each day if $28 bucks seems fair. Ask them how great their body feels when thursday morning rolls around. How is that proposed $32/hr gonna feel in 5 years especially after its reduced by 35 cents each year. $30.25/hr 5 years
from now? Further reducuded thx to inflation? Where do i sign up?!

Oh wait, i'm already doing it, and supporting my family on $28/hr is friggin tough. With the house and car paymts, 401k, college funds for the kids, music lessons, swim lessons, friggin dance class etc...etc...we don't summer at the vineyards bro, we don't fly to the carribean. have u ever had to just work your vacation weeks to make it happen for your family?

When i was making around $10 here, i also threw papers at 3am then painted houses all day before coming in to twilight. i remember what its like. And don't even get me started on that 10 mile walk to school, uphill in the snow. sheesh.

And finally that $28/hr job isn't going to get crowded, theres gonna be less of those jobs thx to the language in this contract. Subcontracting changes r gonna reduce the feeder dept., and the new 9.5 rules r gonna load some drivers up with 12hr days while they cut routes for others.

Enjoy your 6-10 year wait for that $28/hr job.

As much as you like to complain about your job, people would line up around the block to do it for $18 an hour.

 

[kenneth e. winston]

i do not like the contract that indy sign. it has no matching 401k and everything stay the same

 

[705red]

Red kind of dissapointing I thought you were much more level headed, never realized you were such a drama queen.

Drama queen? Please, if anyone is up for an academy award it would be you for your quote on how many customers would we lose by voting no! What do you get out of this contract passing? Besides a stronger contract for management to discipline.

 

[tieguy]

Drama queen? Please, if anyone is up for an academy award it would be you for your quote on how many customers would we lose by voting no!

Perhaps you could show me that quote when you get a chance my little drama queen?

What do you get out of this contract passing? Besides a stronger contract for management to discipline.

unlike you I'm not really into the whips and chains thing. But again you try to turn this into more then it really is. You really need to kill the theatrics and try to stay focused.

 

[705red]

Do you think the customers will stay put or return if you vote this one down and drag things out until july 31st?

Is this what you forget that you typed?

unlike you I'm not really into the whips and chains thing. But again you try to turn this into more then it really is. You really need to kill the theatrics and try to stay focused.

Tie if you honestly believe that this is a good deal for ups teamsters, that is enough reason for me to vote no. But i have taken the time to print out the cntract and study it in my free time over and over and that is why im voting no.

By voting no it does not mean a strike, it does not mean that we will miss the pension reform date, it only sends a message to ups and the teamsters that we are not happy with their offer!

 

[tieguy]

Is this what you forget that you typed?

Tie if you honestly believe that this is a good deal for ups teamsters, that is enough reason for me to vote no. !

Actually I don't believe I have said anything of the type. I've only made about 10 posts the past month so I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding me.

I'm not selling this contract. I don't believe it can be sold. I don't believe you and others like you will be good brothers to those in CS.
As you read through these posts there are too many hysterics associated with the whole issue on both sides. I would expect you as an experienced shop steward would be able to control your own hystronics and provide some calm level headed analysis.

I really don't believe this contract offer will pass. It would require you folks who are not in CS to be good team players for those who are. You won't do it. And you won't admit to not giving a crap about the CS pensioners. So what you will do is create a bunch of hullaballoo about other things under the pretense of the company trying to pull a fast one.

No the fact is you folks will sell out your CS brothers and sisters and give everyone a thousand other reasons why you did it. I see 97 happening all over again. The fact is you will screw your cs brothers again as you did in 97.

 

[tieguy]

By voting no it does not mean a strike, it does not mean that we will miss the pension reform date, it only sends a message to ups and the teamsters that we are not happy with their offer!

LOL, good one Red. I'm done trying to convince myself of such horse****. Personally I think you folks should push the button and send the balloon up. You folks are too stupid to realize that you're one good near strike away from losing it all. Theres a side of me that hopes you're stupid enough to push that button.