Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[BigBrownSanta]

After reading comments from both sides of this thing, I get the impression that if a "perfect" contract was presented, there would still be gripes and complaints about it........"Why is it printed in black ink, I wanted blue ink, etc. etc."

I personally didn't like the pink contract books we have now. I would like to see a black leather-bound book with gold lettering. Maybe put the new language in red. Kinda like the King James version of the UPS/IBT National Master Agreement.

j/k

 

[moreluck]

BBSanta......make that leather-bound and Ron Popeil can sell it as a collector's item for your home library.

Thanks for playing!

 

[pontiac467]

if you vote yes to this new contract with all the hidden language the union want to seperate the partime from the full timers on the penstion
which would mean retirement would be half of what it is now . why would any one work 35 years at a hard labor jobs think about it, a easy answer would be to vote no and let them go back to the tables we still have almost a year to talk they are pushing this way to early. they are sneaky both sides

it isnt hidden language, there has been times i would have a problem and my sup would say it says it in the contract and that it is a gray area. The contract is ok i would like to see a contract were there is no gray areas and the words mean what they say.

 

[sawdusttv]

I personally didn't like the pink contract books we have now. I would like to see a black leather-bound book with gold lettering. Maybe put the new language in red. Kinda like the King James version of the UPS/IBT National Master Agreement.

j/k

Maybe they could print it on a roll o toilet paper, then it would be of use to us!

 

[upsman29]

everyone forget why we wanted to settle this thing early. Like to save jobs from volume diversion? you guys must run straight to the hysteria and skip the basic contract education. You need to help this poor girl understand the basics before you start feeding her all the normal misinformation

If UPS and the teamsters really want a yes vote from the rank and file they should have given us time to look over this contract....If you havent voted by 11-16-07 your vote doesnt count....Why such a short time to decide such an important matter....We just got the review from our union officals on 11-3-07....It might as well have been UPS management giving that review because it sounded just like the BS ups gave us a few days before....If we vote yes UPS and the teamsters will be the ones who will profit the most from this contract....

 

[tieguy]

There you go with your misinformation crap again, and yet all you can do is misinform by answering posts with more questions!
They need to send you back to sup. school, because you are using out of date management tactics. anyone with any time in can see right through them.

If the company was so concerned about settling this thing early, they would have come up with a much more serious offer!!

sawdust I fully understand that you believe the tdu misinformation. I've come to appreciate you for being so gullible. So when I review all the misinformation spread by the teamsters just relax , I'm really talking to the people who aren't so gullible.

 

[Bill]

If UPS and the teamsters really want a yes vote from the rank and file they should have given us time to look over this contract....If you havent voted by 11-16-07 your vote doesnt count....Why such a short time to decide such an important matter....We just got the review from our union officals on 11-3-07....It might as well have been UPS management giving that review because it sounded just like the BS ups gave us a few days before....If we vote yes UPS and the teamsters will be the ones who will profit the most from this contract....

Wrong. If the contract is ratified, UPS is the big winner, the Teamsters are next, and the employees are the big losers. I have explained my reasoning in my previous posts. Please read the one entitled "The truth about the new UPS/IBT pension plan".

 

[Bill]

sawdust I fully understand that you believe the tdu misinformation. I've come to appreciate you for being so gullible. So when I review all the misinformation spread by the teamsters just relax , I'm really talking to the people who aren't so gullible.

YOU forgot to mention the misinformation spread by UPS. Please explain the two pension checks coming from UPS and Central States after a retiree reaches 65. My understanding is that one check from CS pays a portion of the years worked at UPS, and UPS pays the difference to total $3000 per month for a 30-and-out pension. However, the big problem with this is that if CS has to reduce its payment to a retiree for what ever reason (bankruptcy, the RED ZONE AMENDMENT), then UPS will "NOT" make up the difference. Its all in black and white on page 24 on the master contract, and again on page 13 in the Central States supplement. UPS and the Teamsters both know that CS is going to default ( the Teamsters would not allow UPS to control the pension if this was not the case). As an example, say CS issues a check for $2000 and UPS pays $1000 for a total of $3000. When (not if) CS becomes insolvent, and they can only issue a pension check for $1000, and UPS is still giving a retiree $1000, your pension is now only $2000 per month. The Teamsters are spreading misinformation that the pension is guaranteed, when in actuality, it is NOT. There is no financial security. This contract needs a guarantee from UPS if CS can't pay their portion. Also, there has to be a cost of living increase built into the pension, or the pension money is worth less and less each passing year.

 

[tieguy]

YOU forgot to mention the misinformation spread by UPS. Please explain the two pension checks coming from UPS and Central States after a retiree reaches 65. My understanding is that one check from CS pays a portion of the years worked at UPS, and UPS pays the difference to total $3000 per month for a 30-and-out pension. However, the big problem with this is that if CS has to reduce its payment to a retiree for what ever reason (bankruptcy, the RED ZONE AMENDMENT), then UPS will "NOT" make up the difference.

I've already explained this one in so many ways. UPS is making a sincere effort to fix the pension mess. they can't fix every "if" that exists out there with CS. Thats where the insurance of the plan is supposed to kick in when the "if" happens.

UPS and the Teamsters both know that CS is going to default ( the

Maybe. thats what the six billion dollars and the new pension laws is supposed to prevent.

Teamsters would not allow UPS to control the pension if this was not the case).

ups will not control the pension in either scenario. this is really bad misinformation on your part.

As an example, say CS issues a check for $2000 and UPS pays $1000 for a total of $3000. When (not if) CS becomes insolvent, and they can only issue a pension check for $1000, and UPS is still giving a retiree $1000, your pension is now only $2000 per month. The Teamsters are spreading misinformation that the pension is guaranteed, when in actuality, it is NOT. There is no financial security. This contract needs a guarantee from UPS if CS can't pay their portion.

the guarantee comes from the pbgc not ups. UPS is not in the business of insuring large mult employer plans. your argument defies logic. why pay six billion dollars to get out of a plan that you now want them to guarantee.

Also, there has to be a cost of living increase built into the pension, or the pension money is worth less and less each passing year.

prioritize your needs first . getting out of the CS plan is a good long term solution for our people. paying the six billion is the short term solution to not only get out of the CS but to also ensure adequate funding for our people who will draw from it. thats the dollar amount the CS said they need to cover their liabilities to our people.
I'm not sure why you keep going off on a tangent instead of trying to understand what is really happening here.

 

[UPS FREIGHT WORKER]

It is a good thing that most of the people on this site are and have been anti teamsters, you represent the bitter minority of ups. Your poll is as worthless as this site. If people on this site had any real influence the apwa would be representing the ups employees already. It is all empty script. 'It is not who votes, but who counts the votes.'(Joseph Stalin) ask George Bush.

 

[sawdusttv]

sawdust I fully understand that you believe the tdu misinformation. I've come to appreciate you for being so gullible. So when I review all the misinformation spread by the teamsters just relax , I'm really talking to the people who aren't so gullible.

Son, I've probably got more time in the johnny house, in the left stall for that matter than you have with the company. So you want to take gullible?

 

[browned out]

if you vote yes to this new contract with all the hidden language the union want to seperate the partime from the full timers on the penstion
which would mean retirement would be half of what it is now . why would any one work 35 years at a hard labor jobs think about it, a easy answer would be to vote no and let them go back to the tables we still have almost a year to talk they are pushing this way to early. they are sneaky both sides

It's not there is hidden language. It is that the language is vague and easily manipulated or twisted to UPS advantage. It is dangerous and will not be enforced.

How about the part time drivers article? Will part timers be doing the work that full timers create by signing the 9.5 language therefore not being able to finish their rtes on a daily basis. Will UPS create more full time drive positions or skirt around the issue and use these part timers any and every way they can? The part time drivers are a lot cheaper.
Let's have all part-time drivers.

 

[GSO_Dave]

It is a good thing that most of the people on this site are and have been anti teamsters, you represent the bitter minority of ups. Your poll is as worthless as this site. If people on this site had any real influence the apwa would be representing the ups employees already. It is all empty script. 'It is not who votes, but who counts the votes.'(Joseph Stalin) ask George Bush.

What does this guy know?

I am NOT anti-Teamster! I do feel that more can, and should be done with the "power" that we have. Bitter? Maybe somewhat, because of what I perceive as being a "oh well" attitude of many of my co-workers.
"Oh well, what can I do?" or "Oh well, that's the way it is, and I guess I'll just have to take it."

My point here? If you haven't yet voted, DO SO. Vote not only for yourself, but for "All Of Us". Me, I voted NO, because I really feel that we can get, and do deserve a better contract than what has been proposed.

Okay, I'm off the now, LOL

 

[GuyinBrown]

However, the big problem with this is that if CS has to reduce its payment to a retiree for what ever reason (bankruptcy, the RED ZONE AMENDMENT), then UPS will "NOT" make up the difference.

That is incorrect and has been explained in a couple of different places on this board.

Its all in black and white on page 24 on the master contract, and again on page 13 in the Central States supplement.

You're right about that at least.

If this contract passes, UPS is assuming full responsibility for your pension. At age 65, CS will begin to relieve some of that burden from UPS with the money you have accumulated in the Central States fund. However, your pension is still guaranteed by UPS. The portion that you draw from CS is called an "offset". As stated in the contract....

"If the benefit paid from the CS Plan is reduced as
permitted or required by law, the amount of such reduction shall not be included in this offset."

Thus, any reduction by Central States will not affect the total amount you receive. If a reduction "shall not be included in the offset", then it cannot change the amount of your pension.

 

[tieguy]

It is a good thing that most of the people on this site are and have been anti teamsters, you represent the bitter minority of ups. Your poll is as worthless as this site. If people on this site had any real influence the apwa would be representing the ups employees already. It is all empty script. 'It is not who votes, but who counts the votes.'(Joseph Stalin) ask George Bush.

the workers party thanks you for quoting our beloved joe stalin. If the apwa has any real influence on this site they would be representing the ups employees already. But they have none.

 

[SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN]

I sit here and read all you full time pkg drivers complaining about the rate of pay and ups making all this money at the end of this contract you will be making almost 34 dollars an hour and half of you don't even deserve that go out on your route and pad your mileage or bring back smoked pkgs like you even went to the address or sheet nsn for a target store on your route off by one digit you guys make me sick your greedy and then you use the part timers wage as an excuse for your own gains,it is apart time job.what do you want full time wages on part time hours plz.you misinformed TDU pieces of crap are gonna bring this company and everyone else down with it, what do you think will happen when our competition and customers find out we shot this contract down! we are gonna lose volume and fast this will be it and those part timers who don't even vote will be the first ones layed off you know thos guys that have another full time job during the day and don"t care if there is a strike we are already the highest paid in our industry and don't give me this bologna about cost of living cuz i live in orange county you wanna buy a house here fine 2 bedroom CONDO 550,000 no less look it up and i do pretty good so you midwest hicks and everyone else should be living like kings.it is all about greed with you people and that is what will run the company and our livelyhoods downthe drain.so go ahead push the company into a corner DHL is around now and fed-ex is ready for our volume now unlike in 97 oh how easily we forget!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[upsman29]

I sit here and read all you full time pkg drivers complaining about the rate of pay and ups making all this money at the end of this contract you will be making almost 34 dollars an hour and half of you don't even deserve that go out on your route and pad your mileage or bring back smoked pkgs like you even went to the address or sheet nsn for a target store on your route off by one digit you guys make me sick your greedy and then you use the part timers wage as an excuse for your own gains,it is apart time job.what do you want full time wages on part time hours plz.you misinformed TDU pieces of crap are gonna bring this company and everyone else down with it, what do you think will happen when our competition and customers find out we shot this contract down! we are gonna lose volume and fast this will be it and those part timers who don't even vote will be the first ones layed off you know thos guys that have another full time job during the day and don"t care if there is a strike we are already the highest paid in our industry and don't give me this bologna about cost of living cuz i live in orange county you wanna buy a house here fine 2 bedroom CONDO 550,000 no less look it up and i do pretty good so you midwest hicks and everyone else should be living like kings.it is all about greed with you people and that is what will run the company and our livelyhoods downthe drain.so go ahead push the company into a corner DHL is around now and fed-ex is ready for our volume now unlike in 97 oh how easily we forget!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like you know alot about how to be dishonest....Maybe we should report you to your management team after this contract goes through and they can fire you for all those many dishonest acts you have named....If this contract does go through it leaves alot of room for UPS to use the sorry language against you and I.... If you vote yes and they fire you Aug 2nd dont complain about the language remember you voted for it and agreed with every word...Get your resume ready kid no strike that McDonalds doesnt require them...

 

[DS]

MAN WITH A BRAIN,mellow out man,theres a lot of time before the contract expires.and theres no need for name calling .The ones affected mostly are the ones that run the risk of eating catfood instead of hamburger when they retire.Housing is expensive everywhere and you are quick to judge who can afford what where.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

Man, if I had $550,000 I sure wouldn't waste it on a condo in Orange County. I'd move to Hickville, USA and live like a king. $550,000, that's a lot of bait money for fishing right there...

 

[SOMEONE WITH A BRAIN]

upsman all i know is no one was ever fired for doing their job and if i was being dishonest i should be fired like the language in the new contract allows for instead of the people i am talking about getting away with that stuff. seems like i hit a nerve with you for that one maybe you are one of those doing it and afraid they will be able to catch you. DS you want me to mellow out but those people being greedy and voting no are bringing me and the rest of every body else who just want to work down with them, and do not try to tell me housing is expensive everywhere drivers make the same amount all across the country but yet southern ca c.o.l.a is higher than 98% of the country gas is higher here than anywhere else in the nation yet we still do pretty well hence my believing every where else you guys should be doing good so don't go there , but yet you want more because the company is doing well i am gonna clue you in on something the company is not here to subsidise our standard of living it does not owe us anything nor de we owe it anything fair days work for fair days pay like in the contract.we are blue collar workers remember that not doctors and lawyers or businessmen and women so if you think you should be payed 100,000 a year then go get one of those jobs as for me where i have come from and been throuh in my life i am just happy i have what i have and ups has given that to me if it wasn't for this job i would probably be working at walmart really getting screwed those are the kind of companies that we should be furious at.