Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[705red]

Looks like you missed this post the first time Red

Tie somehow i did miss this post the first time, my apoligies. Look im all for helping the brothers/sisters in cs through my wage increase or lack of. I am not willing to sell out the future upsers with a sub standard contract, crap you cant collect a pension if you get fired due to bs language.

Tie besides the threat ofcustomer loss for voting it down, what do you see in this contract that we the union upsers should be happy with?

 

[JustPartTime]

Did I read the correctly on part timer retirement? No 25 and out any age- now I have to have 25 years and be 55?! And pay 200 a month for insurance?
Where is there anything positive for the p/t?


Sorry, exactly what did the part timers get out of this new contract because I must have missed that.....


No.

 

[705red]

Cezanne, I ll have to disagree with you. Like I said before you cannot separate the two. Buy out and the National Contract. Thats why they were both neg. at the same time. UPS knew they could use this to their advantage. They had every right to do so. Great Day!!!! Do you think UPS was just going to sweep those billions under the rug. The Nat. contract reflects the Buy out of 6.1 billion. Ooops, I mean 8 billion. Thats even more of a reason to vote YES. This Nat. contract is lacking economic punch for the rest of us due to the fact our Brothers and Sisters at Central States need help. Cezanne, by you voting no, sends a strong message of . back to our fellow hourly Cs Teamsters.

What have you been smoking? How is a no vote a to our brothers and sisters in cs? I take exception to that!

A no vote tells them that we are not happy with the contract, it has nothing to do with the buyout! If your only reason to vote yes is to help out cs pensioners than my friend you have not taken the time to read the contract and are showing your laziness.

 

[tieguy]

Tie,
Go sell that snake oil somewhere else. The company admitted a couple of years ago that we were being paid less that half of what we should be getting, here in the CS plan. So the company and the union have BOTH been short changing us for years! Now that we are wanting our money, they are crying poor, poor, pitiful, Multi-Billion dollar company.

Dude you must berewriting the script as you go. Put the bong down , clear your head and try to pay attention. The company has been talking about the dangers of CS for at least 20 years that I am aware of. The company tried to address the issue in 97 and fix it then but your union refused to discuss it. Today the company is again willing to fix the pensions of 44000 upsers by putting out 6 billion to get out of the plan not to mention the creation of a new co-administered pension plan which would significantly improve the pensions of CS'ers. The company gets out of the obligation of a sinking pension plan and our folks who belong to CS get a pension they won't have to work to 65 to collect. Thats a win/win in anyones book.

 

[tieguy]

That's right, Why would the union tell us in 1997 to vote no and then in 2007 we are offered much less and they are saying vote yes?
I SMELL A RAT!!!!!!!!

How do you figure they are offering less? The rat is Carey who walked out in 97 when he could have fixed the problem and cost a lot less doing so.

 

[tieguy]

I can't imagine the teamsters agreeing to any language the would allow us to bump out a feeder driver with a sub contractor so what is the issue here?

here's another example of my point. I keep hearing about the new sub contracting language I ask someone to explain it and no one can. Everyones reading the TDU web page of misinformation and then running off into hystronics.

 

[govols019]

You seem to have an obsession with Carey.

 

[Captain America]

I have received multiple mailings from the union including a DVD and today a mailing from our district manager that was vaguely threatening. They both say vote yes, but I am allergic to the hard sell. I already decided contact could be better and am voting no this just confirms my decision

 

[tieguy]

Tie somehow i did miss this post the first time, my apoligies. Look im all for helping the brothers/sisters in cs through my wage increase or lack of. I am not willing to sell out the future upsers with a sub standard contract, crap you cant collect a pension if you get fired due to bs language.

Tie besides the threat ofcustomer loss for voting it down, what do you see in this contract that we the union upsers should be happy with?

Red,
skimming through some of the language I see:

1) Business agents now allowed to attend new hire orientations in right to work states. Win for you.

2) Language that strengthens the unions position when supervisors work during Acts of god.

3) You folks increased the penalty for sups working to double the hourly rate.

4) Language strengthening the unions ability to collect information for grievance hearings.

5) The GPS language which has some in an uproar appears to only be valid for acts of dishonesty. It appears the overall integrity of the language in that article stayed intact with the exception of the one GPS blurb.

6) language that seems to streamline the grievance process which should be a plus for your side.

7)Language that will provide the driver more protection against being charged for a bad dR. Definite win for your side.

8)Language that forces the center to provide the driver specific information about time card edits. win for your side.

9)Language the limits a centers ability to radically change a persons start time when they work taw. definite win for your side.

10) New language on grievance settlement payments and penalities and new language protecting the individual from liability on overpayments. definite win for your side.

11) New language allowing the union to access company vehicles and facilities for the purpose of investigating health and safety concerns. definite win for your side.

12)New language protecting a drivers right to work inside if their DOT is temporarily suspended and they have a reasonable expectation of having it restored.Your side wins again

13)New progression of part time wages bumping part time employees up to 10.50 an hour 90 days after they start. win for your side. It basically equates to raising the starting wage by 2 bucks an hour.
win for you again.

14) The subcontracting language some have tried to make a point of looks like its pretty much a non issue. language about moving work onto trains. Thats not happening because trains move too slow and fdx is pushing us to move more loads from the trains onto the ground.

language about moving loads from the train to the ground and the union wanting to be involved in how and where the jobs would be created thats a win for your side.

Language that allows some sub contracting if we move loads from the train to the ground and don't have enough ups drivers to cover the moves. It appears the language gives us the option to use sub contractors for thirty days maximum while we get people trained up.

Language that will allow the union more oversight into these moves when they occur.

Overall looks like we pick up some temporary flexibility while your side gets its hands into the planning process and has more invovlement from your side in the decisions being made. Win / win at best for both sides to me this language seems more lopsided in your favor.

15) lot of language that appears to significantly increase contributions to various pension funds. Looks like a clear win for your side.

16)Language the increase the pension contribution for part timers. win for you again.

17) New language strengthening the overall process for applying for a no overtime day and spelling out financial penalties when the company screws up. win for you.

18) New process allowing those who want the overtime the option to opt out of the 9.5 requests. Good for those who want the overtime. win for you.

19)Big increases in the sleeper team mileage rates. Some of those guys will be making more then their managers by the end of the contract.

Again this is just a quick skim of the contract offer posted on your favorite TDU site.

Overall it looks like you guys cleaned up when you objectively go through all the language that changed section by section. Most of the changes are yours and wins for your side any way you shake it.

 

[pontiac467]

here's another example of my point. I keep hearing about the new sub contracting language I ask someone to explain it and no one can. Everyones reading the TDU web page of misinformation and then running off into hystronics.

(a) may use substitute means of transportation (such as airplane, helicopter, ship or T.O.friend.C.) in its operations; provided, however, that no feeder driver

with more than three (3) years of seniority in the

feeder driver classification in the employ of the Employer, as of August 1, 1997, will be laid off or

displaced from a feeder classification as a result of a run being placed on the rail. However, the Employer shall not be required to remove loads from the rail to provide work for employees whose
ground loads were eliminated or temporarily discontinued. Any claimed abuse of this Section by any of the Local Unions shall be subject to immediate review by the National Grievance Committee.
Merchandise that has been tendered by United Parcel Service to the railroad and moved by T.O.friend.C. will not subsequently be moved by the railroad, on the ground, to its final destination. Any exception to the
above language will be in cases of an emergency or cases where the railroad must ground the merchandise early to meet the Company's service commitment. In these cases, every effort will be made
to use UPS employees. In order to expand the work opportunities for members of the bargaining unit, the Employer will consider removing additional loads from the railroad or the other substitute means of
transportation specified in this Article. When the Employer removes loads on other than a temporary basis, it shall notify the Union of the number of new runs to be created as a result of moving such loads on the ground. The Employer and Union shall agree on the most expeditious method to obtain additional personnel and/or equipment, if necessary, for the new runs to be
operated by bargaining unit members. If the equipment or employees are not available, the Employer may use subcontractors for a reasonable start-up period, not to exceed thirty (30) days.
The subcontracting can exceed thirty (30) days with the Union’s agreement if there are problems​

I think the way it it worded they could put a run on the rail and then take it off and sub contract it, and as long as it is just temporary there is nothing we as feeder drivers could do about it. In my opnion there will be more jobs lost than gained. If i am reading it wrong please tell me. Thanks for your input​

 

[browned out]

BrownedOut,

Indeed, you have hit the nail on the head!

If you have the time, and energy, any person can figure out that with all the concessions given to the company, they re-coup the 6.1 billion over 5 years and "we" helped pay this back if the contract goes thru in its current state.

I prefer to walk on aug 1 2008.

Right On.

They have the Central States Pension. That was their main goal. Even if we vote this down; that will not change.

What did we get?
Split wage inreases which may turn out to be nothing because the raise money can be diverted to Health and welfare.
Weak language.
Part timers doing full time routes to cover vacation days
No health care for part timers til after a year and a year and a half for families
No new full time jobs.
3 year progression for new drivers.
60 day probationary period.
etc etc

oh yeah we got our pension back from 2002
stellar

 

[tieguy]

(a) may use substitute means of transportation (such as airplane, helicopter, ship or T.O.friend.C.) in its operations; provided, however, that no feeder driver

with more than three (3) years of seniority in the​

feeder driver classification in the employ of the Employer, as of August 1, 1997, will be laid off or

displaced from a feeder classification as a result of a run being placed on the rail.

Don't understand the language. Not sure why the company would ask for such language since our competition is forcing us to pull loads off the train to speed up delivery times. Almost looks like language the union may have asked for to protect jobs?

However, the Employer shall not be required to remove loads from the rail to provide work for employees whose

ground loads were eliminated or temporarily discontinued. Any claimed abuse of this Section by any of the Local Unions shall be subject to immediate review by the National Grievance Committee.
Merchandise that has been tendered by United Parcel Service to the railroad and moved by T.O.friend.C. will not subsequently be moved by the railroad, on the ground, to its final destination.

new language mandating the movement of rail work from the hub to the railyard and back as being ground moves by ups drivers.


Any exception to the
above language will be in cases of an emergency or cases where the railroad must ground the merchandise early to meet the Company's service commitment. In these cases, every effort will be made
to use UPS employees.

New language that now means ups must try to move the work that is prematurely grounded by ups drivers. This work when it happened was previously moved by sub contractors to the final railyard.


In order to expand the work opportunities for members of the bargaining unit, the Employer will consider removing additional loads from the railroad or the other substitute means of
transportation specified in this Article.

we are already headed in that direction as folks saw on the east and west coasts the last couple of years.

When the Employer removes loads on other than a temporary basis, it shall notify the Union of the number of new runs to be created as a result of moving such loads on the ground. The Employer and Union shall agree on the most expeditious method to obtain additional personnel and/or equipment, if necessary, for the new runs to be
operated by bargaining unit members.

New language that gets the union involved early into the planning stages. a partnership of sorts that gets both sides working together when we make moves.

If the equipment or employees are not available, the Employer may use subcontractors for a reasonable start-up period, not to exceed thirty (30) days.​

The subcontracting can exceed thirty (30) days with the Union’s agreement if there are problems

thirty day limit for start up of new service initiatives. requires pre approval from the union if we need more then thirty days for unforseen problems. Little bit of flexibility which helps us compete against non union fdx.

Overall I think it gives us more business flexibility but requires we involve the union much more then we previously have in our operations. In my opinion this is a new approach. Those of you who have been around a while know we usually did not involve the union and allow them to look into our operations plans when we were still making the plans.

 

[parecasa]

I have received multiple mailings from the union including a DVD and today a mailing from our district manager that was vaguely threatening. They both say vote yes, but I am allergic to the hard sell. I already decided contact could be better and am voting no this just confirms my decision

UPS is up to something and dont trust them. Since when did they care if we vote. Every PCM they say make sure to get your ballot in right away. This is the first time I ever have seen them care about us voting at all. Great post Captain I agree

 

[GSO_Dave]

We are not lucky to have this job. We are not the struggling auto industry or real estate industry. We bust our ass and UPS's turnover rate proves it. Anyone can get hired at UPS but not everyone has the work ethic to stick it out. We deserve better.

VOTE
No
Nada
Nyet

I can't see where I can argue with this. I'm voting NO as well.

Dave

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I read this today, and thought I'd throw it out here on the forum.

It appears the government can pay a better pension than UPS or Central States...

PBGC sets pension benefit limit for 2008

 

[Cole]

1) Business agents now allowed to attend new hire orientations in right to work states. Win for you.

That was already there from 97, problem is the BA's don't do it. As a steward I have sat on a couple.

 

[Cole]

BBS,

Few could make it to 65 doing this work.

 

[Cezanne]

With this new IBT/UPS pension plan does anybody know how much it pays for a permanent disability pension, what is the formula of years service and benefit amounts?

Just what would be the attrition rate for most union UPS employees between the ages of 50 and 57 that will be forced to retire early because of the demands of the job?

Face it any prolonged years that you are forced to work to get any decent pension will effect your ability to enjoy any retirement. What use is a good retirement benefit if you are one step from being in a wheelchair.

Most of us long term UPS employees can add an additional 10 years to our current age to determine just kind of wear and tear that it takes to work here 25 or 30 years. If you question this just go to a doctor with any spinal, shoulder, knee complaint and tell them were you work, most of the time they will tell you to find easier forms of employment. Not the type of cure I was hoping for.

If this concessional contract passes it will because most of us close to retirement age are so sick and busted up that any hope of escape looks appealing. Most of us stuck here for the next 5 years of this contract will have to suffer the consquences.

 

[area43]

What have you been smoking? How is a no vote a to our brothers and sisters in cs? I take exception to that!

A no vote tells them that we are not happy with the contract, it has nothing to do with the buyout! If your only reason to vote yes is to help out cs pensioners than my friend you have not taken the time to read the contract and are showing your laziness.

Red, Come on. Laziness/smoking. HA. Please read the NATIONAL MASTER UNITED PARCEL/TEAMSTER AGREEMENT. Read ALL OF ARTICLE 34. The CS buy and the NEW fund to be set up by IBT/CS is in there. BTW, the info is out there(INTERNET). Did you get your ballot mailing, Red? It also has a copy of the Nat. tent. agreement in there,too. Plus your area's supplement. Did you think UPS would be so stupid not to put it in the NAT. Master Agreement. UPSers, 8 billion is alot of money. Remember, be careful what you wish for. It could come back and bite you in the Face. Health and Welfare were the top 2 items in the survey. Its(Buy out/New fund) part of the 5 year contract. UPS makes 4 billion a year in profit. Thats already 2 years of profit. Again, its GIVE and TAKE. I am with Hoffa and hall on this one. This is the richest Contract in history. Vote YES.

In closing, Red, you and the rest of the No voters are in fact screwing over the 44,000 UPSer's that are still now in the CS fund. NO ifs, buts, whats,whens about it. Your screwing them by voting NO. Who ever is making up these LIES about it not being in the Nat. Master Agreement, should Stop Now. Red , I also noticed a degree of guilt in your posts about sticking it to your 44,000 teamsters brothers and sisters at Central States. Incredible. EVERYONE, go read ALL of Article 34. A copy of that art. is in with your ballot mailing.

 

[688upsteamster]

Voice your dissaproval of our negotiation committee! Vote
NO!
Make them go back to the table! Contract isn't up until July of 08.