Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[Ozz]

I think we are going to have a hard time getting the info we need to make an informed decision before we have to vote. The January 1 deadline looms for ratification! It is not stupid to try to think about the possible sticking points now because both sides will be pushing us to vote yes quickly. The handshake agreement took untill Oct 1 for good reason. UPS and the union want this ratified without alot of discussion. That means its probally a good contract for UPS and the union leadership but probally not so good for us. Thank God for the internet so we can discuss this before we are told its the best contract ever...nevermind the details...sign here!

 

[DS]

VOTE NO

jealous?

 

[disneyworld]

Anything on working conditions??? excessive overtime????

 

[tonyexpress]

Really? This coming from a p-time sup wanna be manager know it all. Why are you even posting on this thread? Your in management and to stupid to realize that most of the others sups on this site are staying clear of it to allow us who are affected by it debate our points. And to answer your question not that stupid, because a sup like you would jump at this deal because its better than what you are getting now for you raise. Thats pretty sad that we are discussing turning down this deal that you pray you would just be offered!

Red,

You know better!

Personally attacking someone like this is below you. I know how tense this situation is but don't lose your credibility over it because it got stuck in your gut.

This affects the whole company not just the hourly and everyone is welcome to discuss it on this thread.

T

P.S.

Quite honestly many here seem to be jumping the gun with their decisions because they have their emotions wrapped up in it instead of their brains.

 

[brownmonster]

A. You have not seen the contract. B. It will be voted in. Part time starting wage has been the same for 75 years, trucks are still loaded and unloaded. 3 year progression, so what. $14.75 to start is a pretty good wage and with OT over 40K per year. I waited 2 years for top pay 19 years ago and now it's 3. Look at GM. They never catch up, at least we do. So you make less than the guy next to you. Drama, Drama ,Drama. The Brownmonster will be making 32 bucks an hour in 6 years walking boxes around. Works for me. My kids willl go through college and be lucky to make this kind of money. By the way, I'll probably vote No. Always a little wiggle room. BM

 

[LKLND3380]

how can amyone vote untill we have ALL the facts

 

[dragracer66]

Why the big secret? Why dont the Teamsters just put the contract on the web to dispell rumors? Why all the hush-hush?

It's only a handshake agreement that's why....All of the local president's have to go meet and go over the contract and when it's brought back to each local then EVERYBODY will be given a copy...Then you can give your opinion, until then it's all speculation!!!!

 

[longlunchguy]

25 and out at $2500... if that's true....SEE YA

 

[tmaterman]

I find it amazing that the whole membership gets to decide the fate of the Central States members. Only members of CS should be able to vote on THIS part of the contract.

 

[beentheredonethat]

I find it amazing that the whole membership gets to decide the fate of the Central States members. Only members of CS should be able to vote on THIS part of the contract.

If you make that statement then only FT should vote on the FT rate, only PT should vote on PT rate, only PT should vote on the 6-1 (or whatever it is) ratio to go driving. Only folks 40+ (or something like that) should vote on retirement. Get my point... UPS has a certain amount of money they think they can spend on the contract to stay competitive. Some of that goes to rate increases, some go to HW and pension and some is going to bail out CS. I also agree with a lot of posts saying it's too early to vote on this since I don't know of any of us that have seen the contract. I'm in mgmt and we haven't gotten a detailed briefing yet. To rely on other web sites that already have an agenda. Let me ask you what would the contract have to contain in order for sites like makeupsdeliver.org or TDU to endorse it? Think about that for a minute. Then ask yourself, could UPS afford it? Let's wait, and see the contract, read it, ask questions, then each person should make up their own mind.

 

[local804]

Everyone I spoke with so far at local 804 is a resounding NO! A lot of the senior drivers want to stick around just to vote our current executive board out.....

Amazing...the stupidity started at the top and rolled right on down through this thread.

How stupid are the majority of you?

Red,

You know better!

Personally attacking someone like this is below you. I know how tense this situation is but don't lose your credibility over it because it got stuck in your gut.

This affects the whole company not just the hourly and everyone is welcome to discuss it on this thread.

T

P.S.

Quite honestly many here seem to be jumping the gun with their decisions because they have their emotions wrapped up in it instead of their brains.

705 wasnt the only one that should be called out on this thread, agree?

 

[local804]

705 wasnt the only one that should be called out on this thread, agree?

I agree that the take backs at our local are not making alot of us happy campers. Our 25 and out pension, kiss it goodbye? Na dont think thats a good selling point.

Giving us 10 cents less an hour than the rest of the country to fund our pension as part of our raise ? gtfo


We do get to vote on a local level and we will take it from there.
BTW flamers, I spoke with a BA directly and on a local level, these are facts not hearsay. I am entitled to voice my opinion on this board under the current thread discussion. Save the flames for your bbq.

 

[Big Babooba]

I find it amazing that the whole membership gets to decide the fate of the Central States members. Only members of CS should be able to vote on THIS part of the contract.

Years ago we didn't have a national contract. I don't know if we would be better off going back to the regional contracts. I don't know if we even could - once the horse is out of the barn, it's too late to close the door.

But I do know this. Whatever your feelings about this contract proposal are - They are based on nothing. We have nothing written to go by yet. It is premature to to be forming an opinion based on information passed by word of mouth. Things often get misquoted down the line.We will get a written copy of the proposal. When we do, then we can form an opinion.

You shouldn't be hyping it up or shooting it down until you know what it actually is.

 

[Cole]

First, we have not seen any specifics that can be completley varified at this time, once we do we get give a better evaluation. A rule of thumb is never vote the first offer in, as we have seen in the past, their "last best offer" is a bluff, and they have a better deal behind it. As far as renegotiating, if the Union is saying to accept the offer, (1) it will pass, (2) they would go back and change a little bit of the language and send it for a vote.

The cost to the company on buying out of CS is enormous, but will pay for itself if they don't have to have alot of 62 yr olds delivering pkgs.

Question every word that is changed, and pay very close attention as the word "may" etc... can really water down the language. Also pay very careful attention to your supplements as there has been no mention of the Supplements, and as we know they can strip away everything accept your wages from the National.

As Steve Irwin used to say, "Danger, danger, danger"!

Seriousley we have to pay close attention to any and all changes, and inform others how it effects them etc...

Honestly I think we are better off, particularly weaker local areas, to have at least our wages negotiated on a national level, rather than local. Some areas would get far less otherwise!

 

[5star]

Honestly, do any of you understand the issues we are all facing with the ERISA deadline?

Do you want UPS to fund everyone in the Central States Fund's pension or your's? Think of it like you being forced to pay for all the kids in your neighborhood or the ones that live in your house. How far would your money go if you had to pay for all your neighbor's kids? Your family will be much better cared for if you take care of them yourself and let your neighbors take care of their own kids.

If you want to both hurt your chances of increasing your pay and benefits in the future and pushing UPS into a situation like GM is in then vote no.

I have a feeling that the most zealous of you would vote no no matter what the contract offer was.

 

[GuyinBrown]

I find it amazing that the whole membership gets to decide the fate of the Central States members. Only members of CS should be able to vote on THIS part of the contract.

Unfortunately, the fate of Central States affects the entire company. My personal view is that if we remain in CS, it will end up being an albatross around the company's neck as they are forced to pump more and more money into it to keep it afloat while more and more non-UPS retirees suck it dry. This is the kind of financial situation that is currently dragging the domestic auto industry down the tubes as they struggle to find the money to fund their pension obligations. The difference is that UPS has an opportunity to buy itself out of this situation now, before the financial burden gets out of control. If they can't, it wouldn't just affect the "cental states" portion of UPS, it would affect the company as a whole.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Uh, yeah... what 5star said a minute earlier....

 

[grami72]

I don't have an opinion yet on this contract, and won't until I actually see a copy of the proposal. I am curious about what those of you who already want to vote "no" think the next step will be. The way I see it, a no vote will push the next proposal past the January 1 deadline before new laws take effect. These new laws will impose a huge extra liability on UPS regarding the Central States Pension Fund. Do you really think UPS will pay this extra money (could be billions), and still be willing to raise the proposed wages?

Keeping costs in line with the non union unionized competition is vital.

If you are voting "no", what do you think UPS will do?

 

[sendagain]

There doesn't seem to be a great difference between this new contract and the last one that passed by a large amount, plus it offers a more secure future for the CS pension fund. I think they are hoping you aren't dumb enough to vote this down, because when Jan 1st rolls around, the new pension rules change everything.

 

[tonyexpress]

705 wasnt the only one that should be called out on this thread, agree?

You have a point, but by the same token Red's post was more of a personal attack and VT's more of a general attack.

The Browncafe does not condone either attack because it discourages communication and nobody wants to post if they're going to get jumped on!

Name calling does not reinforce your side of an argument it just makes you look like a bully.

Let's save that for the fantasy football trash talking thread!