tieguy
Banned
Red please don't try to twist my words. I have consistently stated that you can't sell staying in CS as an option if you don't also provide some concrete solutions as to how to fix that mess.
Company and teamsters have a tenative agreement taking over Central States ?
- Thread starter wildgoose
- Start date
Red please don't try to twist my words. I have consistently stated that you can't sell staying in CS as an option if you don't also provide some concrete solutions as to how to fix that mess.
Red,
Lets talk about your pension plan. Are you in a multi-employer plan? Give us some in depth details on your plan. Since it is so great, maybe we'll use it as a model. Either way, CS is out. it is just a matter of choosing another plan that will benifit the UPS employees the most. So trying to convence us to stay is wasting your breath. Instead, how about helping us pick a new plan. Maybe we'll join yours!!!!!!!!!!!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Saw if you ask me i believe my sec/tres should run for hoffas job at the ibt! Since he has taken office in 03 hes taken us out of just about bankruptcy, turned our pensions around enough that we the upsers got a pension increase. Hes the first upser to ever hold this position and also the first slate to ever upset an incumbent officer in 705s 100 year history. I really believe that he could do the same on the national level, he is one penny pinching s.o.b. He also isnt scared to go ote to toe with any employer! We can only pray someone like him can take over and straighten out our beleoved union, and put it back on the right track!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Tie im not twisting words. Im also not interested in my brothers and sisters staying in that cs plan and not being able to enjoy their retirement. However i am concerned that they might just make a leap without checking the facts and that could cost them, and it might just be the best thing ever but we wont know how it will work out for many years to come.
I think we should go out for a drink sometime tie, but you have to buy!
Red,
Details, we need details on your pension. Is it a multi-employer plan or not. We have 44,000 members looking for a new plan. yours sounds good to me. What do you think fellow CS members. Red is a team player, I know he can get us in!!!!!
705red
Browncafe Steward
Yes saw ours is a multi-employer fund, with the exception of about 20 or so memebers who transfered in that are still under the cs plan. I dont know the specific investment firm that manages our fund, but at the last memebrship meeting(june) we we a little over 1 billion in the funds with somewhere around 1800 pensioners drawing from it. Now we have arouind 19,000 plus members in the local and about 7,000 of those are p-timers that do not contribute to the funds, ups holds the p-time pension here. I will get more info for you on our fund during the week! I would gladly allow you to join my locals fund!
You are lucky so far receiving $3700 per month, but that may change sooner than you might believe, as various pension plans have become financially weaker.
Very well stated. Red disputes everything I write even after I give him websites to verify my information. Red and others like him, who back the Teamsters unconditionally, spew misleading information without any justification or verification.
705red
Browncafe Steward
E79 show me were i have spread misleading information! All i have done is given different scenarios of possible outcomes so the members can come to their own decisions. If anyone is guilty of misleading us its you and this apwa issue!
I just read that report that you referred to in your link above. Although it had a slight improvement in assets, the report does not show its liabilities for this quarter. You can spin it any way you like, but the truth remains the same concerning the miserable CS pension.
If he is that wonderful, ask him to run for Teamster president and unseat Hoffa. We need someone who can do what your sec/tres does for you.
705red
Browncafe Steward
No matter the outcome on the pension issue hoffa is done! If he allows us to get out then the freight guys will surely vote against him and they do vote unlike upsers! Now if he doesnt let us out then i believe upsers will turn out in droves against him for it and not just from the cs areas!
E79 you just stated in another thread that you didnt vote the last election, now let me ask you if someone like my sec/tres took on this task would you actually be willing to take the 30 seconds it takes to make your mark and stick it back into 2 envelopes and put it in the mail?
RED,
You're alright with me friend. Maybe your sec\treas. could run for president and you could run for VP. If it is like you say, I would vote for you. We'll see how this plays out, but regardless, I think CS is history, it is just a matter of which fund or funds takes over. In my opinion, it want be hard to find better.
705red
Browncafe Steward
What does this have to do with my locals pension? Can you find any info from this year or will you keep posting 3 year old breaking news articles?
tieguy
Banned
good luck. Jon our self proclaimed pension expert has CS as being a healthy plan. Reds answer and jons too is too put down everything except CS offer no other solutions.
I love this anonymous thing. We had the debate and its over and all of a sudden jons posts show up in response.
Kinda like finding a murder victim and then hearing someone yell don't shoot three hours later.
First of all, I never said that I didn't vote. Secondly, if someone such as your sec/tres took on this task and accomplished the goals that you stated, I definately would give him my vote. I am not against unions. I just don't like crooked, dishonest ones that are looking out for themselves, and do not have our best interests in mind.
tieguy
Banned
Red,
I can't seem to find out anything about those plans except what tdu posted and we know that tdu is not a credible source. l77 seems to be a multi employer plan since I found a listing that shows they not only represent ups but also various warehousemen for other companies.
804 should be an easy answer since we have 804 posting here. 804 is careys old union isn't it? kind of odd that he would set up a private plan at the local level and yet fight private plans at the national level.
Now if you listen to anyone else except jon who thinks CS is a healthy plan then you would agree there is some fear cs would fold. Bad news is if it does the recipients get about 10 k a year from the insurance company. If the plans you mention are private and do fold then those recipients get 40 k a year from the same insurance plan.
Kinda seals that issue don't it. Though its fun watching tdu post their directions to you guys and then watching you start spouting it like gospel.
perhaps jon can do a comparison of those two plans to the one he is stuck with and tell us who is doing better....I'll be looking for your anonymous post in a day or two there jonny boy...roflmao...
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Red,
I agree with your point to Tie about flaws but to be honest, you could look at any plan and find a flaw. The difference IMO of the flaw's importance would come down to exactly how much real impact overall it has. CS had shortfalls for years as the number of members declined while retirees increased (an obvious flaw) but it wasn't until Nov. 40' when they made the cuts that the flaw manifested in pain and then the eruption began.
I think any one of us with little effort could argue the reasons for leaving CS behind but at the same time you could about do the same for staying too and I know there are those here who just can't fathom that concept. I might argue it but not sure just how positive I would be about doing it. It comes down to the level of risks and no matter which way you go or any way you go there are risks involved.
CS is on the table because it does have problems. The IBT are only giving consideration to other pension options because they know this. It's public, they can't hide it. In the very near future Federal legislation will kick in that could pose a real problem not only for the union but for the employers as well, UPS maybe moreso because of it's sheer size and deep pockets. We as employees might even have to make a choice of further pension cuts or paying out of pocket into CS ourselves. The gov't arguement being that over the years less money should have gone to direct wages and more should have gone to benefits. The union wanted wages in order to obtain higher union dues as their own house was in financial disarray.
Amongst all of that, whether you like it or not, you have a movement afoot out there of another union effort that has 2 very good concepts floating that at least in my neck of the woods has some serious appeal. Obviously the talk about the pension but also the idea of a UPS only union. Now there are the "devil in the details" with this also but emotions are overruling logic right now so the thinking on the risks are not as outfront as they might should be.
I honestly think this contract with UPS is a major crossroads for the IBT and "could" spell serious trouble for them if it doesn't go good. If they stay the course with CS and things get worse (I truly believe they will if the status quo is continued) then I do feel in the CS covered areas, especially in the south where unionism isn't that strong anyway, you could see a mass defection of membership and either a swelling of APWA ranks or you could end up with multiple union efforts across the board or even in a couple of areas, no union at all. This would also hinge on just how bad the IBT would botch this contract up for grabs.
If the IBT does allow us to withdraw from CS and then down the road the "devil in the details" emerges, both the IBT and UPS could see a serious backlash. I know some of the management folks might fluff off such talk thinking they are now immune and in some areas they might think so but what effect longterm would happen if even for what you think is a short time if you gave FedEx an obvious advantage? In 97' we only gave them 2 weeks and look what they did?
The days of bothsides IMO of being hardhead and errogant are over as that course will only lead to more business at FedEx, DHL and the Post Office. Hoffa and Company really do have their work cut out for them and make no mistake, UPS is not without risk in this deal as well. For once, all the cards so to speak are on the table and it just comes down to deciding what to draw and when that will lay the course for us and our futures.
BTW: I agree the title of this thread is dead wrong but it's just another example of proof that you have to watch closely what the APWA cheerleaders post on this website. Ashame such a good idea and concept worth thought and consideration is being handled here by a bunch of boobs!
JMHO!
I agree with your point to Tie about flaws but to be honest, you could look at any plan and find a flaw. The difference IMO of the flaw's importance would come down to exactly how much real impact overall it has. CS had shortfalls for years as the number of members declined while retirees increased (an obvious flaw) but it wasn't until Nov. 40' when they made the cuts that the flaw manifested in pain and then the eruption began.
I think any one of us with little effort could argue the reasons for leaving CS behind but at the same time you could about do the same for staying too and I know there are those here who just can't fathom that concept. I might argue it but not sure just how positive I would be about doing it. It comes down to the level of risks and no matter which way you go or any way you go there are risks involved.
CS is on the table because it does have problems. The IBT are only giving consideration to other pension options because they know this. It's public, they can't hide it. In the very near future Federal legislation will kick in that could pose a real problem not only for the union but for the employers as well, UPS maybe moreso because of it's sheer size and deep pockets. We as employees might even have to make a choice of further pension cuts or paying out of pocket into CS ourselves. The gov't arguement being that over the years less money should have gone to direct wages and more should have gone to benefits. The union wanted wages in order to obtain higher union dues as their own house was in financial disarray.
Amongst all of that, whether you like it or not, you have a movement afoot out there of another union effort that has 2 very good concepts floating that at least in my neck of the woods has some serious appeal. Obviously the talk about the pension but also the idea of a UPS only union. Now there are the "devil in the details" with this also but emotions are overruling logic right now so the thinking on the risks are not as outfront as they might should be.
I honestly think this contract with UPS is a major crossroads for the IBT and "could" spell serious trouble for them if it doesn't go good. If they stay the course with CS and things get worse (I truly believe they will if the status quo is continued) then I do feel in the CS covered areas, especially in the south where unionism isn't that strong anyway, you could see a mass defection of membership and either a swelling of APWA ranks or you could end up with multiple union efforts across the board or even in a couple of areas, no union at all. This would also hinge on just how bad the IBT would botch this contract up for grabs.
If the IBT does allow us to withdraw from CS and then down the road the "devil in the details" emerges, both the IBT and UPS could see a serious backlash. I know some of the management folks might fluff off such talk thinking they are now immune and in some areas they might think so but what effect longterm would happen if even for what you think is a short time if you gave FedEx an obvious advantage? In 97' we only gave them 2 weeks and look what they did?
The days of bothsides IMO of being hardhead and errogant are over as that course will only lead to more business at FedEx, DHL and the Post Office. Hoffa and Company really do have their work cut out for them and make no mistake, UPS is not without risk in this deal as well. For once, all the cards so to speak are on the table and it just comes down to deciding what to draw and when that will lay the course for us and our futures.
BTW: I agree the title of this thread is dead wrong but it's just another example of proof that you have to watch closely what the APWA cheerleaders post on this website. Ashame such a good idea and concept worth thought and consideration is being handled here by a bunch of boobs!
JMHO!
GuyinBrown
Blah
I find it interesting that the only people that think we should stay in Central States, are the people who aren't in it themselves... 
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