Company and teamsters have a tenative agreement taking over Central States ?

[sawdusttv]

The teamster BA was at our center today handing out info on the UPS\ CS buyout. This informatiom was correct in one sense and misinformation in another.
It is true that this buyout of CS which is somewhere in the 6 billion dollar range is to releave UPS of the obligations to CS for future contributions. Once the buyout is complete UPS will no longer have to but money into the fund for our retirement. But, the 6 billion dollars only buys UPS out of the plan it does not by us the ups employees out of CS. At the time of the buyout our pension with CS will be frozen at that point, at that amount until we retire. Then we will draw a check from CS for that amount based on years of service to the point of the buyout. All of the time from that point on, until we retire will come in a check from UPS.
SO, this Buyout doesn't reinstate any of the money that we have lost in CS up to this point. It just freezes what we have left, and then puts us in a company plan from that point on.
Now, UPS claims that they will reinstate the 25 and out and 30 and out. Well, that is well and good for those people just starting out or hired in the future. They will work 25 or 30 years and retire with a check from the company.
It does nothing for the people that are vested and have a few years under there belt.
We are still stuck with a very poor pension from CS and a small check from the company for the few years we work after the buyout. But, wait a minute, UPS reinstates the 25 and 30 and out clause, but CS did not. So, we can leave and draw a small check from UPS at 30 years, but we still have to wait until we are 62 or 65 years old to draw our check from CS. Also, the prohibative work clause still remains in affect for the money drawn from CS.

So, you see, unless this UPS plan includes pulling our money out of CS, the company is better off but the employees are still screwed, and all the teamsters are concerned about is making sure that we vote to let them continue managing our money that will be in the new UPS plan.
I say NO to any deal that leaves our money in CS and NO to any deal that allows the teamsters to manage our pension money in the future.

 

[GuyinBrown]

You're not going to get your money out of CS, so accept it and deal with it. I'll have 12 years in CS when they freeze it and I'd still be in favor of a plan along the lines of what you described. It may not help me quite as much as I'd like it to, but it's better for both the company AND the workers in the long run. I'll get my 30 years at 56, so hopefully they'll allow us to draw on the UPS portion and hold off on the CS part until I'm 62 so I don't have to take the penalty.

 

[govols019]

What about the poor guys that don't have the 5 years in CS it takes to be vested? They just lose it all?

 

[GuyinBrown]

What about the poor guys that don't have the 5 years in CS it takes to be vested? They just lose it all?

That's something we'll have to see the details on. I'm sure that UPS has considered that situation and if they want to be sure to get enough "yes" votes for this to pass, they might be willing to take the hit and credit that time in their own plan. Maybe they won't. We'll know soon enough, no use getting worked up over guesses and rumors at this point....

 

[705red]

Yes and no Red. The company has already said that there plan will return to the same levels as we had before the Nov. 04' cuts. Now the devil is in the details so your concerns are well founded and "EVERYONE" should take a wait and see approach.

I think for now a lot of folks covered by CS have spent the last 3 years not only upset that the whole situation let them down but moreso concerned that it could get worse. Now some new pension plan doesn't mean we go back to sleep because what we have to remember is that there were 3 parties involved in the CS disaster, CS obviously but also the IBT and UPS and now These latter 2 want to be in total charge and exclude CS. I know there'll be great debate about UPS' specific involvement and that's fair but the fact is that in contract talks a lot of details are covered that aren't publically mentioned.

Over the years since the 97' strike I've spoken with lots of UPS management folks who've voiced concerns over the pension situation based on info circulated by the company. Some was posturing, granted but some was rather accurate over time and where did this info come from? Again, they see things we don't and just what does that say about our union leadership?

Some folks look at the 97' efforts of UPS regarding the pension from a conspiratorial viewpoint and with evil intent. This is easy to do when you have a good pension fund and I too would oppose at this point any efforts by UPS to do anything with those good performing funds.

I think we've way over esculated this situation right now as UPS even on UPSer's.com have said that there is no agreement even with CS. I think they have an understanding where everything needs to go but this still requires considerable talks with the IBT to work out "ALL" the details involved to make this happen "IF" it happens. At best I think this issue is up to bat but a longway from putting our feet on home plate.

I'd encourage everyone covered by CS to sit back and let things develop and then go over it multiple time with a magnifying glass looking at the fine print. Accept nothing from either side and make them prove everything. This is our one and only shot folks so we can't accept people's word and go on that. Those days of pure trust are over with IMO.

As to those outside CS, point out "KNOWN" flaws, that should be appreciated by the CSers but don't come here looking to feather your own bed at our expense. I've always been very vocal against any move or measure that would take benefits or other monies away from other non-CSers (UPS or not) for that fact to benefit me in CS so don't stand there when I'm looking and considering all options to make my life better.

For the APWAer's. Go away! You are just as bad IMHO at muddying up the waters as the hardcore IBT union thugs. You both have motives that have nothing to do with helping but rather hurting what lay ahead for the CS covered UPSer. Instead of spending your time telling me all that is wrong with CS and the IBT, and yes you can write a book on that, you'd be well served to focus on getting all the hard facts and selling what you have to offer. From the looks of the vote in KC you might be well served in doing that before you have your hat handed to you in Pittsburg.

To eveyone else, let this thing develop in the contract talks, call your local and express your concerns. Email the international. Call the international. One biggee with me is the overly excessive work rules for retirees. We've got a chance right now to kill that nonsense so to quote Larry the Cable Guy let's, "Git Er' Done!"

Mac excellent post! Ups had posted copies of emails that were sent to all the managers regarding the buyout. It basically stated that they had not come to an agreement and for people not to believe everything they hear. I believe that ups now knows how much it will cost them to get out of the fund, and are probably going over the figures for that plus the economic package for the contract to see if its a do-able reality.

Mac and other cser's i might not be in cs's pension but i do feel your pain and am willing to suffer on the raises if it will help our brothers and sisters retire without penalties!

 

[Cole]

Definition of a union brother=

Mac and other cser's i might not be in cs's pension but i do feel your pain and am willing to suffer on the raises if it will help our brothers and sisters retire without penalties!

 

[sawdusttv]

You're not going to get your money out of CS, so accept it and deal with it. I'll have 12 years in CS when they freeze it and I'd still be in favor of a plan along the lines of what you described. It may not help me quite as much as I'd like it to, but it's better for both the company AND the workers in the long run. I'll get my 30 years at 56, so hopefully they'll allow us to draw on the UPS portion and hold off on the CS part until I'm 62 so I don't have to take the penalty.

G Brown,
That is great for you, but it sucks for the employees with 20, 25 , 30 ,etc. years. We want be able to retire on that plan. Let me use myself as an example to show you what I mean. I have 25 years in, I am 44 years old. So, they do the buy out next year, that gives me 26 years at 45 years old. Four more years I'll be 50-51, at 30 years. I could draw 4 hundres dollars from the company and wait 11 or 12 years to draw the rest from CS. I don't think that I or anyone else can live on 400 dollars a month. So, what option do we have. Work another 12 years for a total of 43 years to draw a total of around 2800 dollars a month. Boy, that really sounds great,. What is even better is that there are thousands of us in the same boat!!!!!!!
That is no pension, we had 30 and out with 3000 dollars 11 years ago and you think we should just lay down and accept this crap. Guy-Boy if that is what you are suggesting, you have lost your mind.

 

[sawdusttv]

That's something we'll have to see the details on. I'm sure that UPS has considered that situation and if they want to be sure to get enough "yes" votes for this to pass, they might be willing to take the hit and credit that time in their own plan. Maybe they won't. We'll know soon enough, no use getting worked up over guesses and rumors at this point....

That is the problem in a nut shell, No matter what the older guys tell you, we can not get you younger guys to get worked up over anything. i have heard to many of you say, and I quote " I have a long time left, they'll have it straightened out before I get to retirement age, I'm not going to worry about it." That is why we are in the position that we are in now. We can't get you younger guys to get involved.

 

[sawdusttv]

Mac excellent post! Ups had posted copies of emails that were sent to all the managers regarding the buyout. It basically stated that they had not come to an agreement and for people not to believe everything they hear. I believe that ups now knows how much it will cost them to get out of the fund, and are probably going over the figures for that plus the economic package for the contract to see if its a do-able reality.

Mac and other cser's i might not be in cs's pension but i do feel your pain and am willing to suffer on the raises if it will help our brothers and sisters retire without penalties!

RED FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wkmac]

Mac excellent post! Ups had posted copies of emails that were sent to all the managers regarding the buyout. It basically stated that they had not come to an agreement and for people not to believe everything they hear. I believe that ups now knows how much it will cost them to get out of the fund, and are probably going over the figures for that plus the economic package for the contract to see if its a do-able reality.

Mac and other cser's i might not be in cs's pension but i do feel your pain and am willing to suffer on the raises if it will help our brothers and sisters retire without penalties!

Thanks Red. You are correct that there are no firm details as of yet. We have no idea what a UPS/IBT plan would look like nor what UPS would require to get there. It's way to early to say you'd be for or against it.

As for you other folks suffering on raises, etc. to help us I really do appreciate that and I hope that is not the case. We've in some sense done to this ourselves and to make other sacrifice IMO is just dead wrong. However reality as it is, you are likely right in what you say and as a CSer I'm sorry I was a party to put you in that position.

As to Saw's post about the BA's comments. I've spoken several times with my BA about the current contract situation and we've exchanged some open and honest comments. Much of what I've said here over the last several years were among those comments. However, I also respect the fact that my BA is not in an official capacity regarding the contract and that the IBT for better or worse has maintained a very controlled position on what is released about the contract. Opinions are everywhere and so are rumors. With that, what my BA and I talked about will remain a private matter just as I've talked with UPS management folks, even some corp. level folks on this issue and that to shall remain private. I'm not suggesting I know any more than anyone else and I may even know less, I'll stipulate to that possibility of being fact but I'll also try not to add to the rumormill that makes this situation even tougher than it is. There is way to much on the line and at stake for that and thus the reason I've not been active in these numerous posts of this issue.

Saw, that BA may have made those comments in a public way and shame on him if he did so but I also think it was wrong to post them here, whether they are true or not. It only fuels a rumormill that in the end may or may not be true. And just because UPS proposes something doesn't mean the end product will look like that.

Did you ever consider what those UPSers with 20 plus years will think of your BA's suggested scenario of the UPS proposal? One of the biggest reasons APWA can't get any sealegs with it's pension idea especially among older UPSers is the very 2 pension check system your BA described. With 26 years myself, how do I really benefit killing one system to go into another when in the longrun, the system I'm voting to kill will supply me my largest form of income in retirement? Oh sure, CS is dying right? Well the odds sure point to that trouble but it's not an established certainty either. There is a chance, albeit slim, things could work out but going APWA is a dead certain that CS will die the nuclear death so many fear and again, no mechanism on the part of APWA to umbrella in folks like me so that I at least get the same amount as I would have gotten prior to the 2004' cuts. You do that,come up and solve that issue with absolute uncertainty and the APWA ranks in the CS areas will explode.

There no argument UPS wants out of CS and I appreciate their position on that. They see another cost effective way to do the same thing but on a cheaper scale. If someone comes to you and sez I'll give you the exact same level of insurance coverage you have now but for 30% less than you are paying, would you take it? All things being equal I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't take that deal. At the least, you'd hear it out. Let's wait and hear UPS out. UPS really wants this and they will need every vote they can get to make this happen and they also know one of the stumbling blocks for the APWA was the double pension checks for the folks especially will more years like myself. What are the odds that people with 20 plus years will vote year for a plan that sez your majority check will come from a plan that's dying and then we'll give you a much smaller supplemental check to account for these remaining years?

UPS may indeed be that stupid and like their move in 97' of waiting till the last day to spring their plan, they may again underestimate the UPS union member. I've voted no before on contracts and have no fear of voting no again and I'm sure I'm not alone in that process. Also, my guess is that this proposal could be a national issue and not a regional supplemement alone so I've also got folks like 705Red and others I can count on to help put on the pressure to get something good done and if we say no, I'd bet they'd stand with us.

I also have to ask this about you BA. Is his interest in the wellbeing of the UPS union member or is he looking out for himself and union power? Depending on the answer may determine if his remarks were based on truth or manipulative lies!

Just something to think about.

 

[tieguy]

All things being equal I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't take that deal. At the least, you'd hear it out. Let's wait and hear UPS out. UPS really wants this and they will need every vote they can get to make this happen and they also know one of the stumbling blocks for the APWA was the double pension checks for the folks especially will more years like myself. What are the odds that people with 20 plus years will vote year for a plan that sez your majority check will come from a plan that's dying and then we'll give you a much smaller supplemental check to account for these remaining years?

how would you propose they do so. I don't believe they are able to pull their money out of CS and put all of it into a new fund. If six billion is the number that they need to buy their way out of the CS mess then they could easily use the same number for the new fund. Lots of cards to play out here. The large check , smaller check concept would almost seem to be a given here. The question in my mind is how the differences in retirement age plays out between CS and a potential new plan to be named later.

UPS may indeed be that stupid and like their move in 97' of waiting till the last day to spring their plan, they may again underestimate the UPS union member. I've voted no before on contracts and have no fear of voting no again and I'm sure I'm not alone in that process. Also, my guess is that this proposal could be a national issue and not a regional supplemement alone so I've also got folks like 705Red and others I can count on to help put on the pressure to get something good done and if we say no, I'd bet they'd stand with us.

Interesting that you would throw some rabble rouzing into the discussion when the whole world as we know it is now waiting and hoping UPS somehow pulls a rabbit out of their pension hat. Interesting that you would talk this way when the fact is the easiest thing ups could do is not touch the pension issue at all and leave it up to your beloved teamster leadership to create the magic that will save CS. Theres a part of me that sees an issue that is so complex that I honestly don't know if UPS can come up with a solution that can pass a contract ratification. Its commendable that Red is willing to take a hit for the CS pensioners but I'm sure the rest of the country will not feel the same way.

So complex that the easiest thing ups could have done would have been to simply not touch it at all. Keep that in mind when you talk about putting the squeeze on or talk about walking the line.

You want ups to ride in on their white horse and save the day while preying the horse does not **** on the lawn or tear the grass up as he comes through.

 

[GuyinBrown]

G Brown,
That is great for you, but it sucks for the employees with 20, 25 , 30 ,etc. years. We want be able to retire on that plan. Let me use myself as an example to show you what I mean. I have 25 years in, I am 44 years old. So, they do the buy out next year, that gives me 26 years at 45 years old. Four more years I'll be 50-51, at 30 years. I could draw 4 hundres dollars from the company and wait 11 or 12 years to draw the rest from CS. I don't think that I or anyone else can live on 400 dollars a month. So, what option do we have. Work another 12 years for a total of 43 years to draw a total of around 2800 dollars a month. Boy, that really sounds great,. What is even better is that there are thousands of us in the same boat!!!!!!!
That is no pension, we had 30 and out with 3000 dollars 11 years ago and you think we should just lay down and accept this crap. Guy-Boy if that is what you are suggesting, you have lost your mind.



That is the problem in a nut shell, No matter what the older guys tell you, we can not get you younger guys to get worked up over anything. i have heard to many of you say, and I quote " I have a long time left, they'll have it straightened out before I get to retirement age, I'm not going to worry about it." That is why we are in the position that we are in now. We can't get you younger guys to get involved.

First off in your scenario, you have 25 years in, so you should have about 21 "protected" years of pension. Unless I'm mistaken, you're affected by the cuts and penalties much less than the rest of us, so you'd only have about 4-5 years that would be influenced by the current cuts and penalties in effect. Regardless, under the current rules, you're unlikely to be retiring in 5 years anyway so what's your point? Unless you've been banking everything on this pension issue giving you everything you've ever dreamed of and more, you've either accepted that you'll have to put more years in at UPS or you've made the necessary arrangements to retire anyway. Do you even comprehend what the 4 Billion+ dollars is for? I'll give you a hint... it isn't a payment that buys all of our vested years out of CS.

My point was that you can piss and moan all you want, but from everything I've gathered, the money is not coming out. Period. I'm not asking you to lie down, I'm asking you to open your eyes and look at the facts. Everything that is already in CS is staying in CS no matter what you do. So what's your plan? Because it isn't going to benefit you the most, screw everyone else? Get everyone to vote against whatever is offered so that we all stay in the same horrible pension fund and wait around until it dies a slow painful death? You can't live on $400 a month but when the pension fails, the $1000 you'll get from the government will be sufficient? Maybe you want to try and force UPS to continue to dump more and more money into this bottomless pit until it begins to drag the company down too... just like the auto workers? Boy that's some forward thinking there, let me tell ya.

You need to keep 2 very important things in mind....

1- There will be no solution that satisfies everyone. I think that in the best case scenario, we'll be looking at something that helps guys like you minimally, guys like me moderately, and relatively new hires a lot.

2- I think that with 12 full time years and almost 20 total I've climbed out of the "young guy" stage. If you're 44, then you're only a few years older than I am, but whatever. What exactly would you like me to get worked up about? Everything is still a rumor at this point. We just got a PCM this morning stating that there is NO formal agreement between UPS and Central States but they do have enough information to begin discussing options with the IBT when talks resume in early September.


I'll be away until Sunday Saw, so you get 2 days to take your shots at me. Please try to stay grounded in reality though.

 

[sawdusttv]

First off in your scenario, you have 25 years in, so you should have about 21 "protected" years of pension. Unless I'm mistaken, you're affected by the cuts and penalties much less than the rest of us, so you'd only have about 4-5 years that would be influenced by the current cuts and penalties in effect. Regardless, under the current rules, you're unlikely to be retiring in 5 years anyway so what's your point? Unless you've been banking everything on this pension issue giving you everything you've ever dreamed of and more, you've either accepted that you'll have to put more years in at UPS or you've made the necessary arrangements to retire anyway. Do you even comprehend what the 4 Billion+ dollars is for? I'll give you a hint... it isn't a payment that buys all of our vested years out of CS.

My point was that you can piss and moan all you want, but from everything I've gathered, the money is not coming out. Period. I'm not asking you to lie down, I'm asking you to open your eyes and look at the facts. Everything that is already in CS is staying in CS no matter what you do. So what's your plan? Because it isn't going to benefit you the most, screw everyone else? Get everyone to vote against whatever is offered so that we all stay in the same horrible pension fund and wait around until it dies a slow painful death? You can't live on $400 a month but when the pension fails, the $1000 you'll get from the government will be sufficient? Maybe you want to try and force UPS to continue to dump more and more money into this bottomless pit until it begins to drag the company down too... just like the auto workers? Boy that's some forward thinking there, let me tell ya.

You need to keep 2 very important things in mind....

1- There will be no solution that satisfies everyone. I think that in the best case scenario, we'll be looking at something that helps guys like you minimally, guys like me moderately, and relatively new hires a lot.

2- I think that with 12 full time years and almost 20 total I've climbed out of the "young guy" stage. If you're 44, then you're only a few years older than I am, but whatever. What exactly would you like me to get worked up about? Everything is still a rumor at this point. We just got a PCM this morning stating that there is NO formal agreement between UPS and Central States but they do have enough information to begin discussing options with the IBT when talks resume in early September.


I'll be away until Sunday Saw, so you get 2 days to take your shots at me. Please try to stay grounded in reality though.

OK Guy, I guess we'll all do like you say and sit back and let UPS and the teamsters and CS do as they please and just except whatever they throw at us. Great plan GBrown!!!

 

[705red]

Thanks Red. You are correct that there are no firm details as of yet. We have no idea what a UPS/IBT plan would look like nor what UPS would require to get there. It's way to early to say you'd be for or against it.

As for you other folks suffering on raises, etc. to help us I really do appreciate that and I hope that is not the case. We've in some sense done to this ourselves and to make other sacrifice IMO is just dead wrong. However reality as it is, you are likely right in what you say and as a CSer I'm sorry I was a party to put you in that position.

As to Saw's post about the BA's comments. I've spoken several times with my BA about the current contract situation and we've exchanged some open and honest comments. Much of what I've said here over the last several years were among those comments. However, I also respect the fact that my BA is not in an official capacity regarding the contract and that the IBT for better or worse has maintained a very controlled position on what is released about the contract. Opinions are everywhere and so are rumors. With that, what my BA and I talked about will remain a private matter just as I've talked with UPS management folks, even some corp. level folks on this issue and that to shall remain private. I'm not suggesting I know any more than anyone else and I may even know less, I'll stipulate to that possibility of being fact but I'll also try not to add to the rumormill that makes this situation even tougher than it is. There is way to much on the line and at stake for that and thus the reason I've not been active in these numerous posts of this issue.

Saw, that BA may have made those comments in a public way and shame on him if he did so but I also think it was wrong to post them here, whether they are true or not. It only fuels a rumormill that in the end may or may not be true. And just because UPS proposes something doesn't mean the end product will look like that.

Did you ever consider what those UPSers with 20 plus years will think of your BA's suggested scenario of the UPS proposal? One of the biggest reasons APWA can't get any sealegs with it's pension idea especially among older UPSers is the very 2 pension check system your BA described. With 26 years myself, how do I really benefit killing one system to go into another when in the longrun, the system I'm voting to kill will supply me my largest form of income in retirement? Oh sure, CS is dying right? Well the odds sure point to that trouble but it's not an established certainty either. There is a chance, albeit slim, things could work out but going APWA is a dead certain that CS will die the nuclear death so many fear and again, no mechanism on the part of APWA to umbrella in folks like me so that I at least get the same amount as I would have gotten prior to the 2004' cuts. You do that,come up and solve that issue with absolute uncertainty and the APWA ranks in the CS areas will explode.

There no argument UPS wants out of CS and I appreciate their position on that. They see another cost effective way to do the same thing but on a cheaper scale. If someone comes to you and sez I'll give you the exact same level of insurance coverage you have now but for 30% less than you are paying, would you take it? All things being equal I doubt there's a person here who wouldn't take that deal. At the least, you'd hear it out. Let's wait and hear UPS out. UPS really wants this and they will need every vote they can get to make this happen and they also know one of the stumbling blocks for the APWA was the double pension checks for the folks especially will more years like myself. What are the odds that people with 20 plus years will vote year for a plan that sez your majority check will come from a plan that's dying and then we'll give you a much smaller supplemental check to account for these remaining years?

UPS may indeed be that stupid and like their move in 97' of waiting till the last day to spring their plan, they may again underestimate the UPS union member. I've voted no before on contracts and have no fear of voting no again and I'm sure I'm not alone in that process. Also, my guess is that this proposal could be a national issue and not a regional supplemement alone so I've also got folks like 705Red and others I can count on to help put on the pressure to get something good done and if we say no, I'd bet they'd stand with us.

I also have to ask this about you BA. Is his interest in the wellbeing of the UPS union member or is he looking out for himself and union power? Depending on the answer may determine if his remarks were based on truth or manipulative lies!

Just something to think about.

Mac theres alot of blame to go around for the cs pension downfall, from ups management, the teamsters, the financial firms and even us upsers! If upsers became more active in union activities, meetings, picnics, organizing drives, crap even filing grievances, but if we stood up as a whole throughout the country to let our voices be heard from day one instead of sitting back and doing nothing until now that we are pissed off maybe none of this would have happened, just maybe!

As to us all taking it on the chin its quite possible! Say ups has put 10 billion aside for this contract, and cs costs 6 billion that leaves us with 4 billion for raises,medical benefits, dental vision, etc. Now most of us dont want our medical benefits to get any worse, so we would like to keep those, so we will trade a little pay raise for that, now lets not forget that we also need to take a stand for the p-timers and raise that starting pay rate above the poverty level its at now, so in the long run, i believ that the friend-timers will be lucky to get about $2 an hour raise if even that over a 5 to 6 year span! No formula used to get these numbers just a little quick math on a piece of paper( that i found after the negoiating commitee left the room)LOL.

 

[JonFrum]

Let's All Do Our Homework!

We have no idea what a UPS/IBT plan would look like nor what UPS would require to get there.

Wkmac,
True, but we can get a good idea by looking at the similar plans UPS has been running all along. This will also prepare everyone to ask the right questions when the actual plan details are released. (Assuming they actually release many details. They didn't last time in 1997.)

The Local 804 Pension Fund and the Local 177 Pension Fund are both in tough shape even though they are run in part by UPS. To get the FACTS on these funds visit FreeErisaDotCom and search their Form 5500 database for their annual financial reports.

To view the reports for years 2000 thru 2005 (the latest available) of the
LOCAL 804 IBT AND LOCAL 447 IAM - UPS MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
Search for
Name Contains: 804
Limit Zip Code To: 30328

To view the reports for years 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2005 of the
UNITED PARCEL SERVICE LOCAL 177 IBT MULTI-EMPLOYER RETIREMENT PLAN
Search for
Name Contains: UPS
Select State: Georgia

UPS runs a single-employer pension plan for part-timers in Central States and elsewhere called the UPS Pension Plan; and also a plan for management called the UPS Retirement Plan.

To view the reports for years 2004 and 2005 of the
UPS PENSION PLAN
and
UPS RETIREMENT PLAN
Search for
Name Contains: Parcel
Select State: Georgia

When a report is displayed, be sure to click on Show All, to get a fuller version of the report. Then click Save and give the file a unique filename as you save it to your desktop or a special folder.

FreeErisa is free, but you do have to REGISTER, which is why Tieguy is sporting major wood just reading this sentence!!!
http://freeerisa.benefitspro.com/

 

[hondo]

definition of a union brother (2) =
also concerned about (nonUPS) teamsters in CS if UPS "buys" out.

 

[tieguy]

Re: Let's All Do Our Homework!

Wkmac,
True, but we can get a good idea by looking at the similar plans UPS has been running all along. This will also prepare everyone to ask the right questions when the actual plan details are released. (Assuming they actually release many details. They didn't last time in 1997.)

Ah Jon has come out of hiding. Your're right carey did not release any details . Carey refused to discuss the poor health of the pension plans. Carey ran for the door rather then discuss it at all. Your point?

The Local 804 Pension Fund and the Local 177 Pension Fund are both in tough shape even though they are run in part by UPS.

Are they really or is this part of the teamsters misinformation campaign that you have been tasked with presenting here? How much of a part. Who controls the other parts Jon? If for instance UPS controls 177 as you claim jon then why have they not been able to put in the cuts you claim they are trying to put in?

 

[GuyinBrown]

OK Guy, I guess we'll all do like you say and sit back and let UPS and the teamsters and CS do as they please and just except whatever they throw at us. Great plan GBrown!!!

Seriously, trying to talk to you is like trying to teach Einstein's Theory of Relativity to a brick. I never said anything about sitting back to let anyone do as they please. I DID say that we should wait to see what kind of offer is made before anyone gets worked up over rumors, but you failed to grasp that concept. There may be a time to get worked up AFTER we see something in writing, but until we see a real offer, it's nothing but wasted energy. To recap, I simply stated that no matter how much you cry about it, your money is never coming out of Central States. I'm not even sure if they're legally ALLOWED to remove it. All I'm saying is that common sense would seem to dictate that the best case scenario would be a plan that helps the guys with 20+ years a minimal amount, guys with 10-20 years moderately and 0-10 years the most. Part of the reason for that would be that guys with 20+ years have the most "protected" years and would be hit with the smallest early retirement penalties. If the company presents a reasonable alternative to CS and you're against it simply because it doesn't benefit you the most, then I encourage you to look at guys like Red who are willing to take a hit on the raise to help US out. Expecting UPS to keep dumping more and more money into a failing plan is no solution. Could we force them to do so? Probably. Will it fix CS? No. Will it eventually become a financial drain on the company, potentially dragging it down the same path as the auto industry? Possibly. So if anyone has a "great plan" it's you.

 

[tieguy]

Seriously, trying to talk to you is like trying to teach Einstein's Theory of Relativity to a brick. I never said anything about sitting back to let anyone do as they please. I DID say that we should wait to see what kind of offer is made before anyone gets worked up over rumors, but you failed to grasp that concept. There may be a time to get worked up AFTER we see something in writing, but until we see a real offer, it's nothing but wasted energy.

you know this pension debate on these threads has been all over the place fueled by speculation on what may and may not be in the offer. Maybe your point should be what we nail down now. Maybe the thing to do now is line up the questions that need to be asked when there is an offer.

 

[GuyinBrown]

you know this pension debate on these threads has been all over the place fueled by speculation on what may and may not be in the offer. Maybe your point should be what we nail down now. Maybe the thing to do now is line up the questions that need to be asked when there is an offer.

Maybe, but I doubt the first offer we see is going to be the final one. I would think that would be the point at which we were able to ask the real questions since right now we don't even know if UPS will make a realistic offer to withdraw from CS. They might ask for ridiculous concessions in return, to make up for the billions they'd be spending. Who really knows until we see or hear something concrete? Over active imaginations do nothing but conjure images of the bogey man. I thought you of all people would agree on that.