Dear Mr. Hoffa

[Just_another_day_at_work]

but that of human decency.

Please stop with all the drama - you (the offended teamster) will not even say good morning to a "management person" until you are on the clock. Why? Do you think we stayed up all night thinking of ways to de-humanize you or violate the "precious contract".

Sorry MR Fedex I will not hijack anymore of this thread. Some of these guys are unbelieveable, be carefull about the teamsters, you can see what it has done to some of them.

I say good morning (off the clock) ! Next thing I hear: are you going to be ok out there?! What is your max? You need air help again?!
When my sup comes to ask how am I doing, he usually means for 9.5 not for personally how am I doing.

 

[happybob]

DS

If fedex can't stay in business being unionized I see it as a poorly run company. The shareholders of the company will see a loss. You will not find a company today that wont say if the union were to come in we would go out of business. It's up to the company, management and hourly alike, to insure that wont happen. Could it lead to the possibility of a merger, maybe, maybe not. The weaker company will not survive. The volume of packages will still be there. Fedex has similar technology to that of UPS and they can't use that as an excuse to fight this bills pasage. Keeping the union out is Fred's was of turning a huger profit for the shareholders. Let the strongest company survive. At some point in the future our companies will have to take a look at merging. Will the government allow that is the big question. They will complain about it being too big and they will corner the market, but it is inevitable. JMHO, and no it will not be called FEDUPS.

 

[705red]

First I agree with the statement about contract violations, but that is a different post for a different thread at a different time.

Here is why you should care about this.....

Today, there are 3.5 million packages being picked up, and delivered by non union, non employee FedEx ground contractors. I remember when I thought it was bad when it was just 1 million.

This is lost opportunity for union dues and people contributing to union pension. Of course, it is also lost opportunity for profit.

We fnally have a chance to be on the same side of an argument. What is the point of disageeing over this as well?

P-Man

Pman you said a million used to be bad, but now its up to 3.5 million and we should be concerned. Do you not read the posts on this site? Of course we are concerned many of us have discussed this to length. Do you think its because FedEx provides a better service? They have gained market share because management has allowed them.

We have routes busted daily, drivers over worked and fed up, poor moral, reminded to get sales leads, but we already have a 10 to 12 hour day, where can the work possibly go? I know to the 3 drivers that are going home because some suit said we cant afford to run those routes today. What costs more I ask of you, running thos routes or losing some customers over late deliveries and missed pick ups?

Instead of sups out visiting the customers or possible new customers to gain business, we have drivers being followed and warning letters issued for teh hands not being at 10 and 2. But in order to level the playing field we need FedEx to unionize?!

To level the playing field we need to level our upper management and start from scratch and get back to the basics that this company was founded on, treat people like people, family qualities, put the Service back in to UPS, grow a new and stronger partnership with our management team. This company survived for a 100 plus years on those, but it wont survive another 100 on what we have become today! IMO

 

[705red]

Tony you know I have nothing but respect for you. Its not the same UPS world that you remember, for teh last year or so the hourlies have been treated like crap, and now its managements turn to get treated like crap. WHen you have management that dont care it bleeds down to us. Remember we are only as good as our management team. We are losing alot of old school managers, the guys and gals that worked tehir way up and did our jobs at one time. They are being replaced by people with no skills, no knowledge of the job other than what they have read on paper.

Its hard for me to llok at contract violations as a driver, because I handle alot of the grieavnces and I see how much money gets pissed away in penalty pay, or 9.5s because management cannot do the right thing from the start. And when you piss them off the deadlock it at panel only to pay their attorney buckets of cash only to settle before arbitration or lose it at arbitration. This company will spend $1000 to walk over a nickel. Our CEO gets a $5 million dollar raise in his first year while a 60 plus year tradition of giving out turkeys to the employees gets eliminated.

I sure would hate to be starting out here today and kow that I have 30 years more to work for this company, at least as it is right now. I remember when I couldnt wait to get to work, now when Im at work I count down the hours to vacation time.

 

[UPS & FedEx have merged]

Most management employees have changed a great deal over the last few years. Many of the old school supes have driven, but that was a long time ago. Things have changed a lot since then. Just think about all the changes over the last 5 years. And the new supes are green and very inexperienced. Not only look at how many of them have been a driver, but look at how long they have driven. That makes a huge difference. Just think back to your 5th year driving and how your body felt, now think about your 15 year. How has it changed? Combine all that with the fact management has completely lost its ethics. The way many employees are treated is just plain wrong. You management guys can say what you want but if you just stop and really think about how the company is ran now you will see it in its true light. I now how business works I know a lot of it flows downstream, but not all of it. And there is something said for just admitting "hey this comes from above"...

I have a business degree and when I was a part timer I thought someday maybe I would want to go into management. But there is no chance I would do so in this climate. Or probably ever at UPS. I see how bad an on road supe has it. They get crap from the center manager and the driver. But hey they signed up for it...

As for the Fed Ex unionizing which is why I even started to type this... I think it would be a win win for UPS, Teamsters and Fed Ex hourly employees. I cant figure why a Fed Ex driver is under the same act as a pilot. I mean last time I saw my Fed Ex counterpart delivering in my area, he was in a "TRUCK"...

 

[bluehdmc]

I'm sure the Teamsters are lobbying behind the scene to get the Railway Act changed, just like Fedex is lobbying for it to stay the way it is. Under the current rules, Fedex would have to vote to unionize the entire company all at once. For the teamsters to spend the resources for that is probably prohibitive. If the Railway Act is changed then the teamsters could work on one "depot" at a time, picking the ones that would more likely vote for the union first and chip away at unionizing Fedex. Probably saving the "right to work" states for last. As far as Fedex Ground the contractors are another issue altogether, although why the Teamsters don't try to organize the inside workers I don't know.
The contractor? or employee? question will probably be decided in the courts, there are a few states that have raised the issue.

 

[pretzel_man]

Pman you said a million used to be bad, but now its up to 3.5 million and we should be concerned. Do you not read the posts on this site? Of course we are concerned many of us have discussed this to length. Do you think its because FedEx provides a better service? They have gained market share because management has allowed them.

We have routes busted daily, drivers over worked and fed up, poor moral, reminded to get sales leads, but we already have a 10 to 12 hour day, where can the work possibly go? I know to the 3 drivers that are going home because some suit said we cant afford to run those routes today. What costs more I ask of you, running thos routes or losing some customers over late deliveries and missed pick ups?

Instead of sups out visiting the customers or possible new customers to gain business, we have drivers being followed and warning letters issued for teh hands not being at 10 and 2. But in order to level the playing field we need FedEx to unionize?!

To level the playing field we need to level our upper management and start from scratch and get back to the basics that this company was founded on, treat people like people, family qualities, put the Service back in to UPS, grow a new and stronger partnership with our management team. This company survived for a 100 plus years on those, but it wont survive another 100 on what we have become today! IMO

Red:

Yes, I've read the posts here. But I also spend time in districts and centers. I speak with drivers and customers. You can believe this or not, but just because its posted here doesn't make it true. It doesn't mean that the majority of our people feel this way. I have never believed in the squeeky wheel approach.

Take this interchange for instance. Because the RLA benefits UPS, many cannot even see that the union is the bigger winner. Even if I agreed with everything you said, I still would not understand the fight on the RLA.

Management would be blinded to think that FedEx ground got to 3.5M pieces per day without management mistakes. Of course management must take responsibility.

However, you would be blind to not recognize the impact caused because UPS pays about double for a driver that FedEx ground does. This allows them to win on cost. Customers tell me that too.

Life is not one sided. This is a chance to at least align.

P-Man

 

[satellitedriver]

You haven't read very closely, have you?Yes, I have. My point is that the Teamsters have to step it up precisely because we cannot "earn it", as you put it. If I start distributing union materials in the breakroom tomorrow, I'm as good as gone.That was the exact way that Hoffa Sr. started out to form the teamsters. It doesn't matter that it's legal to do so. FedEx will very successfully find something to pin on me and then eliminate another "threat". I could sue, but I can't afford a team of lawyers, nor can I wait-out FedEx and their army of attorneys. Checkmate for Mr Smith. Nobody else over here can afford to fight them either. You seem to have conceded defeat, before the battle.
All you are asking for is Big brother to stop the school yard bully from pushing you around.

You are also unfamiliar with the FedEx corporate culture, which has a 36 year tradition of being extremely anti-union, and resulted in a company full of synchophantic rats who will squeal like a pig on anyone who even hints at being pro-union.

Finally, the IBT gave us some lukewarm support back in the 1990's and then ran away like little girls when Smith snuck the last RLA exemption into the FAA Reauthorization Act. Mr Hoffa has done nothing to undo this lasting image of the Teamsters as a "cut and run" organization. They left a lot of FedEx employees who had supported them hanging in the breeze for the management vultures to pick apart. IBT legal support disappeared, as did any sign of reps or officials. Not exactly an Oscar-worthy performance. If the RLA exemption goes away, a lot of people will remember what happened, and FedEx management will expertly exploit it and semi-accurately portray the IBT as mobsters and thugs.If your facts are right, why the hell would you want to be a teamster?

So Mr SD, get your facts right before you come on here and blast me-( I have not blasted you)- about something of which you know very little.-( you might be surprised what I know)- Most of us over here want a better life, and that means going union. We aren't begging Hoffa for help, but we expect some sort of leadership on his part that would indicate to FedEx employees that the IBT (and Hoffa) are worthy of our support and $$$. So far, he's shown us nothing...zero.

FedEx employees are not worthy of support from the teamsters.
By your own admission, most are not willing to stand up.
It is not Hoffa's, or any union leaders fault, or duty, to coddle those not willing to earn the support.
I was willing to lose my job in 97', when I left the teamsters.
Yet, you do not want to take any risk in becoming a teamster.
Either, take the risk, or keep silent, and keep your job.

 

[satellitedriver]

However, you would be blind to not recognize the impact caused because UPS pays about double for a driver that FedEx ground does. This allows them to win on cost. Customers tell me that too.

Life is not one sided. This is a chance to at least align.

P-Man

I must be blind.
I have 4 FedEx drivers covering the same area, as I.
The sum total of their packages and deliveries are just about equal to mine.
-(Yes, we talk)-
Ups pays double the pay rate, yet gets quadruple the performance.
My wife routinely gets three to four deliveries in a day, from FedEx, and it is a different driver for each delivery.
How can they impact us-(UPS)- as much as they do?
Hell, the financial buzz all this week was over FedEx's quarterly earnings report as a metric for economic recovery.
UPS reports are just a blip on the radar.
Life is one sided and it leans to the one with the best image.

 

[705red]

Red:

Yes, I've read the posts here. But I also spend time in districts and centers. I speak with drivers and customers. You can believe this or not, but just because its posted here doesn't make it true. It doesn't mean that the majority of our people feel this way. I have never believed in the squeeky wheel approach.

Take this interchange for instance. Because the RLA benefits UPS, many cannot even see that the union is the bigger winner. Even if I agreed with everything you said, I still would not understand the fight on the RLA.

Management would be blinded to think that FedEx ground got to 3.5M pieces per day without management mistakes. Of course management must take responsibility.

However, you would be blind to not recognize the impact caused because UPS pays about double for a driver that FedEx ground does. This allows them to win on cost. Customers tell me that too.

Life is not one sided. This is a chance to at least align.

P-Man

Pman, I want nothing more than to see the employees of Fedex at least to have a chance of joining a union. But its not because it would benefit me as a UPS employee, its because hopefully it would benefit them to have represenation as FedEx employees. Wanting them to join because it would benefit by hurting their company by costing them jobs is not the union way.

 

[ups1990]

I've never did like to address a grown Man as "Dear" when writing a letter.

 

[Signature Only]

but that of human decency.

Please stop with all the drama - you (the offended teamster) will not even say good morning to a "management person" until you are on the clock. Why? Do you think we stayed up all night thinking of ways to de-humanize you or violate the "precious contract".

Sorry MR Fedex I will not hijack anymore of this thread. Some of these guys are unbelieveable, be carefull about the teamsters, you can see what it has done to some of them.

I always say hello to management personnel first thing in the morning before I grab a Diad. And what's with this "precious contract" ? On page 163 of the National Master Agreement there are 44 names from the UPS Negotiating Committee. So it seems it's your "precious contract" too.

 

[pretzel_man]

Pman, I want nothing more than to see the employees of Fedex at least to have a chance of joining a union. But its not because it would benefit me as a UPS employee, its because hopefully it would benefit them to have represenation as FedEx employees. Wanting them to join because it would benefit by hurting their company by costing them jobs is not the union way.

Red:

That's an argument I have never heard before, and I'm not sure I understand....

If FedEx employees joined a union (the RLA does not make them unionized), why would they lose jobs?

The FedEx argument I guess, is that if their employees joined a union, they would have to pay higher wages and benefit. If they paid higher wages and benefits FedEx would need to charge more, right? (or reduce profit and share price)

Therefore they may lose some customers, probably to UPS.

In this scenario, if FedEx shrunk union employees, UPS would grow union employees.

Why is this not the union way? I really would like to understand your perspective on this one.

P-Man

 

[tonyexpress]

Pman, I want nothing more than to see the employees of Fedex at least to have a chance of joining a union. But its not because it would benefit me as a UPS employee, its because hopefully it would benefit them to have represenation as FedEx employees. Wanting them to join because it would benefit by hurting their company by costing them jobs is not the union way.

I'm surprised by this response!

Shouldn't UPS and FedEx have the same opportunities and challenges to deliver a package? Basically what you're saying is that if FedEx had the same challenges to deal with as UPS does, they would fail. Shouldn't their employees be classified the same as UPS employees for doing the same job?

If their drivers and management can't step up to run their company with the same advantages/disadvantages as UPS then they will lose market share and UPS will become stronger, rightfully so.

True competition comes with a level playing field...

 

[705red]

Red:

That's an argument I have never heard before, and I'm not sure I understand....

If FedEx employees joined a union (the RLA does not make them unionized), why would they lose jobs?

The FedEx argument I guess, is that if their employees joined a union, they would have to pay higher wages and benefit. If they paid higher wages and benefits FedEx would need to charge more, right? (or reduce profit and share price)

Therefore they may lose some customers, probably to UPS.

In this scenario, if FedEx shrunk union employees, UPS would grow union employees.

Why is this not the union way? I really would like to understand your perspective on this one.

P-Man

You are assuminbg that FedEx would unionize of course. I believe that the employee should have the choice and not be forced to join a union and thats all I want to see. For the employees of FedEx to have a say. FedEx says they shouldnt have a choice and UPS is saying they shoud be union, not one person until now (me) has said its the employees choice.

UPS''s argument the whole time is that FedEx could not compete with us if they were union, thats a battle between the higher brass of both companies. As drivers and hourly workers yes we do the same job, as UPS employees we had a choice to join the union, and their employees should to. And that is their decision and one that they need to make.

As long as they get the coice and vote one way or another I can live with it, union or not, but they should have a choice. But to hope that they unionize so that FedEx would have to raise prices or cut services to give UPS an upper hand is wrong.

You are assuming that more business would bring us more jobs, but it doesnt. It could just mean more work for the current employees that are already beat to crap. Almost every driver I know made more money last year in a bad economy and our volume was done. Why is that? Its because we where worked harder than ever, every day was like a day during peak all year long.

 

[705red]

I'm surprised by this response!

Shouldn't UPS and FedEx have the same opportunities and challenges to deliver a package? Basically what you're saying is that if FedEx had the same challenges to deal with as UPS does, they would fail. Shouldn't their employees be classified the same as UPS employees for doing the same job?

If their drivers and management can't step up to run their company with the same advantages/disadvantages as UPS then they will lose market share and UPS will become stronger, rightfully so.

True competition comes with a level playing field...

Tony the point is our management isnt stepping up now with our advantages we have. We have the best, most accurate tracking system around. IMO we have the best laborers to do the job and deal with the customers. But instead of management helping to grow the company, they would rather treat the employees like crap. like pission in cups and putting in cup holders, or following drivers around for bs warning letters, to not caring that we work 10 to 12 hours everyday.

We have the tools to beat them union or not, be management would rather just make excuses that because they are not union is why they are gaining ground on us. I call BS, its bad management decisions and policies that has sent 3.5 million packages a day to them.

 

[pretzel_man]

You are assuminbg that FedEx would unionize of course. I believe that the employee should have the choice and not be forced to join a union and thats all I want to see. For the employees of FedEx to have a say. FedEx says they shouldnt have a choice and UPS is saying they shoud be union, not one person until now (me) has said its the employees choice.

UPS''s argument the whole time is that FedEx could not compete with us if they were union, thats a battle between the higher brass of both companies. As drivers and hourly workers yes we do the same job, as UPS employees we had a choice to join the union, and their employees should to. And that is their decision and one that they need to make.

As long as they get the coice and vote one way or another I can live with it, union or not, but they should have a choice. But to hope that they unionize so that FedEx would have to raise prices or cut services to give UPS an upper hand is wrong.

You are assuming that more business would bring us more jobs, but it doesnt. It could just mean more work for the current employees that are already beat to crap. Almost every driver I know made more money last year in a bad economy and our volume was done. Why is that? Its because we where worked harder than ever, every day was like a day during peak all year long.

Red:

I'm sorry, but I think you are way off base here...

The FAA act does NOT make FedEx union. All is does is make it the same rules as UPS. They can join a union if they wish or not.

If life is better the way it is now, then no harm, no foul. Why then would you or FedEx be opposed to that? I still don't understand your position.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Tony the point is our management isnt stepping up now with our advantages we have. We have the best, most accurate tracking system around. IMO we have the best laborers to do the job and deal with the customers. But instead of management helping to grow the company, they would rather treat the employees like crap. like pission in cups and putting in cup holders, or following drivers around for bs warning letters, to not caring that we work 10 to 12 hours everyday.

We have the tools to beat them union or not, be management would rather just make excuses that because they are not union is why they are gaining ground on us. I call BS, its bad management decisions and policies that has sent 3.5 million packages a day to them.[/QUOTE]

The other half of the story is that they pay about 1/2 for their ground drivers that UPS pays. That is part of the story as well.

P-Man

 

[tonyexpress]

Tony the point is our management isnt stepping up now with our advantages we have. We have the best, most accurate tracking system around. IMO we have the best laborers to do the job and deal with the customers. But instead of management helping to grow the company, they would rather treat the employees like crap. like pission in cups and putting in cup holders, or following drivers around for bs warning letters, to not caring that we work 10 to 12 hours everyday.

We have the tools to beat them union or not, be management would rather just make excuses that because they are not union is why they are gaining ground on us. I call BS, its bad management decisions and policies that has sent 3.5 million packages a day to them.

You can't blame it all on bad management! Like I said before, it's a two way street, there are managers that need help, there are hourly that need help. If we don't work together we won't be around another 10 years let alone 100...You are focusing on working conditions that have been more difficult for both management and hourly for the last couple of years because of the economy. It's not only at UPS but everywhere, productivity is up, people are getting squeezed so companies can survive...At least the ones who are having to work harder have a job...I'll bet you the guy on the street would trade places in a heartbeat!!

This is not to make light of the problems you and others have expressed here, there are problems that need to be addressed and working conditions need to improve....

My point is...and I'll say it again. The competitive playing field should be the same and yes the employees should have the option to join the union just like they do with UPS, I thought that was implied and almost typed it in my last post.

If they're not classified the same yet do the same job how is that a fair deal for all the hard working UPSers? UPSers have always stepped up to overcome the unfair advantage. First the Post Office, not having to make a profit to survive… and more recently FedEx which has in my opinion an unfair advantage. Unfortunately much of the stepping up has been at the expense of our people, both management and hourly, many sacrifices made. In another respect it has made us stronger, more efficient and streamlined...

I don't get the overloading; bring back the Total Service Plan!!

 

[happybob]

The Fedex employees would have the option to join a union, and it's the union that hasn't taken the fight to the next step. Currently the union has to unionize the entire country due to the piss poor fact that Fedex was given an oversized bone when they started the company, by being governed under the FLA. The union DOES NOT have the resources to stage a national campaign to unionize fedex. So the next step has been taken to try and get the drivers, that do the same work as UPS drivers, moved to the NLRA int he halls of Congress. Mr. Fred has spent millions fighting this bill and believe me when I say the union has spent money on it to. Hey UPS, Atlanta, are you listening! If this fight in Congress fails, here's the next step you can take. Since the union can't afford to try an organize them nationwide, step up to the plate. Kick in some money to help the union with that organizing campaign. Is it illegal for the company to do so? I don't know, but the idea may be a good one. There is much to gain by fighting beside the union on this issue. The Teamsters are not going anywhere, so join us in this battle. You know if we win that campaign we all win, The company, the union, your employees, as well as the hard working men and women at Fedex. Short of this, you will have to talk merger at some point in the future, you know it, we know it, Fred knows it. The company has wrung out all the production you can get from the delivery drivers, tired, exhausted and on the fringes of tearing this company apart. Wake up. Jump in here p-man. Has the company ever thought of this angle? Pay a little now, make more in the future. Makes sense to me.