Fred's turn to be pissed off

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Anyone who's looking to murder a bunch of people doesn't need much assistance in going through with it. There were ways to do it better, true, and in 24 hrs they got some issues corrected, such as dealing with those who already had green cards. What were the reasons for recent lone wolf attacks? We should do what we can concerning them, but we should especially be vigilant against those trying to get here to do just that.
Idk the specific reasons cited for recent attacks. I do believe further framing of the war on terror as a war on Muslims does more harm than good with this ban. If ISIS is happy with this ban saying it's been great for recruiting it's probably poorly done.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Idk the specific reasons cited for recent attacks. I do believe further framing of the war on terror as a war on Muslims does more harm than good with this ban. If ISIS is happy with this ban saying it's been great for recruiting it's probably poorly done.
He restricted 7 state sponsors of terror, just as Obama did. How is that framing it as a war on Muslims when most Muslim countries were left out? Check out the McCarren-Walter Act of 1952, last used by Jimmy Carter to kick 15000 Iranians out of the country in 1979.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Anyone who's looking to murder a bunch of people doesn't need much assistance in going through with it. There were ways to do it better, true, and in 24 hrs they got some issues corrected, such as dealing with those who already had green cards. What were the reasons for recent lone wolf attacks? We should do what we can concerning them, but we should especially be vigilant against those trying to get here to do just that.

You are much more likely to be killed by a fellow Texan/Mexican/Whatever You Are These Days, than a Muslim immigrant. FACT.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
He restricted 7 state sponsors of terror, just as Obama did. How is that framing it as a war on Muslims when most Muslim countries were left out? Check out the McCarren-Walter Act of 1952, last used by Jimmy Carter to kick 15000 Iranians out of the country in 1979.
Just because Trump spins it as not a war on Muslims doesn't mean that's not how it's percieved. It's disingenuous to place a ban on majority Mulsim countries, say the ban doesn't apply to Christians and Jews and act surprised when the world views it as a Muslim ban.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Just because Trump spins it as not a war on Muslims doesn't mean that's not how it's percieved. It's disingenuous to place a ban on majority Mulsim countries, say the ban doesn't apply to Christians and Jews and act surprised when the world views it as a Muslim ban.
The travel ban is on 7 countries PLUS a ban on Muslim refugees because there's a specific threat from ISIS infiltrating those refugees. Again, if he doesn't act, and something terrible happens, what will you say? Can't win with you folks so he might as well fulfill his campaign promise to those who voted for him. The world will push on, they always do.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Highly unlikely it'll be a mass attack of the size of 9/11.

This is actually true. Probably a suicide vest or the so-called lone wolf. You're still much more likely to be killed by a local, probably even statistically your own family...than a Muslim immigrant.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
This is actually true. Probably a suicide vest or the so-called lone wolf. You're still much more likely to be killed by a local, probably even statistically your own family...than a Muslim immigrant.
How many potential attacks were stopped by the previous administration? Plenty. We have to remain vigilant. Because though it's unlikely to affect you, that's little comfort to the families of any future victims. And no doubt people like you will be screaming if a serious attack happens on Trump's watch.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
How many potential attacks were stopped by the previous administration? Plenty. We have to remain vigilant. Because though it's unlikely to affect you, that's little comfort to the families of any future victims. And no doubt people like you will be screaming if a serious attack happens on Trump's watch.

No, because Trump will probably be the causal factor in any new attacks. He's the new ISIS poster boy, after all, the big bogeyman they can point to (with truth) as an oppressor of Muslims.

Be careful what you wish for.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
No, because Trump will probably be the causal factor in any new attacks. He's the new ISIS poster boy, after all, the big bogeyman they can point to (with truth) as an oppressor of Muslims.

Be careful what you wish for.
And Obama was seen as weak by Muslims. That part of the world respects strength.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
And Obama was seen as weak by Muslims. That part of the world respects strength.
That's just nonsense. What's needed to actually fight terrorists is broad coalitions. We need the assistance of other governments, especially in the Arab world. Banning Muslims isn't going to gain us any friends.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
That's just nonsense. What's needed to actually fight terrorists is broad coalitions. We need the assistance of other governments, especially in the Arab world. Banning Muslims isn't going to gain us any friends.
And where has that broad coalition been sir? Why haven't the surrounding Muslim countries, many of which are very wealthy, taken in all of those Syrian refugees? Obama drew a red line that he told Assad not to cross, and he crossed it. Not to mention Putin invaded the Ukraine and the Chinese are building islands to stake a claim to the South China Sea. The Iranians were given $150 billion by Obama and promised not to work on building ballistic missiles for 8 years. They tested one Sunday. Not to mention harassing our ships. Bad actors run all over you if they think you're weak. Obama was weak. Would I prefer that Trump acts more presidential? Sure. But I think he's already demonstrated to countries that are pushing us they're up against a different animal. If you don't like that then too damn bad.
 
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vantexan

Well-Known Member
And where has that broad coalition been sir? Why haven't the surrounding Muslim countries, many of which are very wealthy, taken in all of those Syrian refugees? Obama drew a red line that he told Assad not to cross, and he crossed it. Not to mention Putin invaded the Ukraine and the Chinese are building islands to stake a claim to the South China Sea. The Iranians were given $150 billion by Obama and promised not to work on building ballistic missiles for 8 years. They tested one Sunday. Not to mention harassing our ships. Bad actors run all over you if they think you're weak. Obama was weak. Would I prefer that he act more presidential? Sure. But I think he's already demonstrated to countries that are pushing us they're up against a different animal. If you don't like that then too damn bad.
P.S. Jordan has a large Syrian refugee camp, and they aren't wealthy. Where is Saudi Arabia? Iran? Kuwait? The U.A.E.? Why do we have to accept 10's of thousands of Muslims? Pretty much everywhere in Europe where there are significant numbers they demand Sharia Law and no go zones for law enforcement. The massive influx recently has cause numerous cultural clashes, including a lot of sexual assaults. Is that what you want here? There are good Muslim people everywhere, including this country. But as long as a significant part of their population believes in either dominating non-believers or destroying them we have a right to demand that our gov't be extremely careful about who they let in.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
And where has that broad coalition been sir? Why haven't the surrounding Muslim countries, many of which are very wealthy, taken in all of those Syrian refugees? Obama drew a red line that he told Assad not to cross, and he crossed it. Not to mention Putin invaded the Ukraine and the Chinese are building islands to stake a claim to the South China Sea. The Iranians were given $150 billion by Obama and promised not to work on building ballistic missiles for 8 years. They tested one Sunday. Not to mention harassing our ships. Bad actors run all over you if they think you're weak. Obama was weak. Would I prefer that Trump acts more presidential? Sure. But I think he's already demonstrated to countries that are pushing us they're up against a different animal. If you don't like that then too damn bad.
The Mexican president has already shown that he's not impressed or intimidated by the Trump is a big bully posture. He cancelled a trip here and his approval in his country shot up. The people of the world have no respect for Trump. The only foreign leader Trump hasn't criticized is Putin. I don't see how alienating all of our allies including the one that shares thousands of miles of physical border is good for national security.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The Mexican president has already shown that he's not impressed or intimidated by the Trump is a big bully posture. He cancelled a trip here and his approval in his country shot up. The people of the world have no respect for Trump. The only foreign leader Trump hasn't criticized is Putin. I don't see how alienating all of our allies including the one that shares thousands of miles of physical border is good for national security.
He's not alienating all of our allies. Always with the extremes. If a wall greatly slows illegal immigration and the drug flow great. Mexico has actually encouraged illegal immigration with safety pamphlets. Remittances to Mexican relatives from illegals in the States is one of Mexico's largest sources of revenue. And again, I don't blame them for coming up here, but the criminal element that came up has to go.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
He's not alienating all of our allies. Always with the extremes. If a wall greatly slows illegal immigration and the drug flow great. Mexico has actually encouraged illegal immigration with safety pamphlets. Remittances to Mexican relatives from illegals in the States is one of Mexico's largest sources of revenue. And again, I don't blame them for coming up here, but the criminal element that came up has to go.

No he's just alienating most of them, and inflaming our enemies.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
No he's just alienating most of them, and inflaming our enemies.
Get ready guys for World War 3. Where will the theater of operations be.? South China Sea? North Korea? The Balkans? Maybe all 3 at one time. Trump says that he loves war. More importantly he doesn't want to be President. He wants to be Czar and make America an isolated police state . I wonder what the Trump lovers will do when he reinstates the draft and starts drafting people into the army. But he doesn't need to worry. The rich don't get drafted.The one's who get drafted are the poor white kids from the rural areas. The poor black kids from the inner cities and the poor Hispanic kids from the barrios. But when the bible thumpers out in the farm belt start seeing their kid coming back in a flag draped casket will they still support Trump with the same fervor as they did before?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Get ready guys for World War 3. Where will the theater of operations be.? South China Sea? North Korea? The Balkans? Maybe all 3 at one time. Trump says that he loves war. More importantly he doesn't want to be President. He wants to be Czar and make America an isolated police state . I wonder what the Trump lovers will do when he reinstates the draft and starts drafting people into the army. But he doesn't need to worry. The rich don't get drafted.The one's who get drafted are the poor white kids from the rural areas. The poor black kids from the inner cities and the poor Hispanic kids from the barrios. But when the bible thumpers out in the farm belt start seeing their kid coming back in a flag draped casket will they still support Trump with the same fervor as they did before?
You are literally a liberal caricature.
 

Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
Get ready guys for World War 3. Where will the theater of operations be.? South China Sea? North Korea? The Balkans? Maybe all 3 at one time. Trump says that he loves war. More importantly he doesn't want to be President. He wants to be Czar and make America an isolated police state . I wonder what the Trump lovers will do when he reinstates the draft and starts drafting people into the army. But he doesn't need to worry. The rich don't get drafted.The one's who get drafted are the poor white kids from the rural areas. The poor black kids from the inner cities and the poor Hispanic kids from the barrios. But when the bible thumpers out in the farm belt start seeing their kid coming back in a flag draped casket will they still support Trump with the same fervor as they did before?
:blahblah:
 
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