IF the contract is voted down, what issues do you think will be addressed?

Coldworld

60 months and counting
as i have said before and will continue to say the p/t ers neither deserve or are entitled to ANYTHING.... UPS can get away with getting plenty of "us" through the door if "YOU" are not able to find a better way to make more than $10 an hr you probably are not worth it......

Let me guess...you were hired off the street right to driver..im sorry, but if a part time person puts the time, sweat and dedication in for 5, 10 or 15 years they do the friend deserve a full time job....with an ignorant comment like that looks like you are just a me-ster .Please prove me wrong that I just misunderstood your original post...
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
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UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
UPS can easily pay two to three dollars more a hour more to hire a good part time work force. As a driver, I have seen the quality of my loads get dramatically worse. The time I waste delivering misloads, finding pkgs, and sorting, at my overtime wage, easily covers their wage increase. Pay them so they want to do a good job, and keep their job.

The problem you will never solve is that no matter how much you pay the PTimer to start they will never be happy as they will never catch up to anyone hired before them. Drivers on the other hand will TOP out in (3 yrs now 4 yrs if the contract passes). The other problem is that is you start PT at to high of a rate they will never want to go be a driver as they are already making good money and only working PT....
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
The problem you will never solve is that no matter how much you pay the PTimer to start they will never be happy as they will never catch up to anyone hired before them. Drivers on the other hand will TOP out in (3 yrs now 4 yrs if the contract passes). The other problem is that is you start PT at to high of a rate they will never want to go be a driver as they are already making good money and only working PT....

Most PTers going into driving today are already earning over $20/hour (on an annual basis, that equates into just over $20K). Hiking up PT wages isn't going to create the environment you're projecting. UPS could also offer PTers tuition reimbursement in lieu of benefits. But of course, UPS needs the young bodies to subsidize the cost of its older employees. PTers are subsiding FTers in more than one way...

As far as never being happy... now many drivers on here are complaining about a contract that will pay them an average of $92,000/year? Toss in the no-cost benefits and we're talking about being among the top 5% of all compensation earners in the USA.
 

Hawfuh Sux

Old Guard Assassin!
In the Southwest, its taking 10 to 15 years to go full-time driving depending on which local your from. And the combo jobs only exist in the 24 hour hubs in Los Angeles and in the big Ontario Hub.
 

teamsterdan

Well-Known Member
you need to recognize the difference between "hating" and reality......i have yet to see anyone show me that my premise is wrong....I simply contend the following....."for the type of work p/t'ers do @ UPS; is there not an easier way to make the same or more doing less work (physically) elsewhere???? therefore if ya CHOOSE to take it (the p/t ups job) then STFU and take it........":sick:
 

teamsterdan

Well-Known Member
and furthermore........arguably the p/t'ers are made up mostly of 20 somethings who have the majority of the voting power, the most free time and the most to gain do they not????? we are told that this "me" generation is sooooooo tech savvy and more intelligent than generations past, then where are the viral videos??? or catchy memes to further their cause???? in my building the p/t employees are clueless when it comes to union issues, too lazy to read the union board, and expect to be spoon fed info.................if i were a p/t employee today and wanted more $$$ i would have organized all the p/t employee's via the interwebs and demonstrate to the company and the union who's in the cat bird seat........had "they" done this they would be paid better and have to put up with less BS......
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
ok...why all the hate on the part timers???

It's not "hate".

Most of the PT force are not committed to UPS as a career, and it has little to do the dearth of FT jobs, or even necessarily the starting pay; it is a throwaway job. Many people take it to get what they want out of it-benefits, tuition pay, a gig to get them through a rough time-and then move on. Many were upset when PTmers were made to wait a year for health; I was too, until I heard that there were abuses going on with people getting the insurance, getting a procedure, and then cuttin' out. Even if it was legit, that's not respectful of what the company and teamsters have done in providing this compensation package. Thus 'barriers of entry' have been created, making sure that before the hands really get into UPS' pockets they'll show that they plan on being around a little while, or have stuck around long enough that they have earned the more costly parts of the compensation package.

Two things that really should be proposed next contract is higher wages for PTmers in lieu of benefits they decline, but only if they can prove they are already on someone else's plan; it would be the socially-responsible thing to do. That could attract more workers, without having to give up a solid benefit totally; if at anytime they lose the coverage they must choose between getting in under UPS' plan or buying their own private policy, if they'd rather keep the higher wage. UPS could verify peoples' coverage via an annual or bi-annual survey, and give them a reasonable amount of time to come into compliance with the law before they are automatically brought into the plan covering everyone else.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
The second thing is a break-down of whatever the barriers are in place that prevent employees from transferring to different hubs to seek out more opportunities there. In my local there are a dearth of candidates for utility driving jobs. Even if it is only temporary, you are talking months' of FT pay at a rate higher than what most PTmers make (and those whose rate is higher, wouldn't they still be paid at their rate; even if not, FT at $18.75 is significantly better than PT at $21), as well as valuable driving experience that could speed up the process of becoming a FT driver. However, in my center it was announced they are currently training 3 drivers who will actually be able to attain seniority, two of which were loaders; the third is a street hire who replaces an inside employee who had something personal come up that prevented him from completing qualification.

Reasonable rules could be implemented to prevent employees from over-crowding desirable hubs, such as making the 6-1 ratio be filled by an employee from another district, before it is offered to a supe or an off-the-street applicant. Some may this idea on the idea of it being age-related discrimination, but perhaps an age limit can be put in place to prevent long-time employees close to retirement from being able to transfer to a locale with a better pension plan for a couple years, and then retiring, thus over-burdening that local with a higher-than-normal retiree population they must support; similar rules could be put in place for hubs in popular retirement areas, like Phoenix or many hubs in Florida. I know in the Postal Service one can only transfer to a station that someone else wants to transfer out of; the two employees will basically swap places, ensuring neither station is left in a weakened position as far as personnel is concerned; perhaps something similar could be created to give employees who would like to exploit such an opportunity be afforded the chance to, and thus eliminate any hint of ageism.

Allowing PTmers-or anyone else eligible to apply-to pursue career opportunities at other hubs could help lessen the long waits some must endure to become drivers in places where local management doesn't really see a need to create more driving positions. It still allows for "new blood" to be located in hubs, but without the lack of valuable work experience that comes with such new blood, which could lead to improved loads and environments (I suspect those inclined to go after a driving position will want to show they are hard-working, dedicated, capable, with a good work-ethic). In smaller communities that part-timers leave for other opportunities, now new positions are created for the local population to fill. In light of the disadvantage one has with "high turnover"-which a hub in a less desirable location may experience with their more-motivated workers leaving for better opportunities-maybe some type of initiative could be created, like a special class of hourly whose main focus is to train and help new hires, or employees struggling with becoming acclimated to their responsibilities. This position would only be found in hubs where such a condition might be found to exist; they do not become "hourly supervisors', but more like mentors, assisting the supervisors in having to deal with a constant flow of new-hires.. For the teaching-and mentoring-inclined workers of UPS, this may be an incentive to transfer into a hub in a less-desirable location, and if the position is a FT one, provide another avenue for drivers looking to get off the street. One hiccup is how to balance the needs and rights of seniority with the need to have good people doing this, those really interested in helping make the PT workforce stronger and better.
 
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'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
Will you be "gr8ful" when you learn that you can't get your pension (that you "earned") until age 65 Skippy? Did you even read the changes that needed to be voted on? Probably not. Keep up the good work (off the clock). Lol
Upstate is quite set for his retirement from what I have gathered, even if the pension was to disappear tomorrrow. The more savvy, intelligent and wise on this site have positioned themselves in a similar way, much as more forward-thinking employees of today are preparing for their own retirement, one without Social Security, which many believe to be endangered.

P.S.I currently have no retirement savings; in a way, a homeless man without a penny to his name has more in "savings" than I do. I am grateful for the very good pay I earn from UPS, however, that can-I expect it to-right this gross error on my part in relatively short-order, in order to retire comfortably, even without a pension being there. I'm not saying everyone prepping their own way for retirement would give up the pension easily, but I don't think that would cause those who aren't opposed to most of the other changes to vote down the TA.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
. The other problem is that is you start PT at to high of a rate they will never want to go be a driver as they are already making good money and only working PT....

Why is that a problem? Ever hear "A happy worker is a productive worker"?

If the PTmers were comfortable in their earnings, and could make a living based off of it, they'd be less-inclined to not show even a hint of enthusiasm for their job; a large problem with the loads, crappy trips pkgs take through the system, etc. has to do with feeling they are not being properly compensated for the job; when I first left UPS, despite the pressures and maltreatment I had received from some, I loved the job. In my exit interview, my main gripe was the very-low pay. In my case, UPS literally lost me to another employer, and I had a good work ethic and was reliable in my attendance; often times UPS "loses" employees because even though they are on the payroll, for all intents-and-purposes they have "left the building", either due to being highly unreliable in attendance/tardiness, or because they become very ineffective.

Trust me, if not another PTmer cared to get promoted due to a high-satisfaction and contentment with their wages, there won't be a problem filling the drivers' ranks; my father, a postal employee, currently works with several who have Masters-and Doctoral degrees, but make less than half I do.
 

40 and out

Well-Known Member
You sky is falling people need to chill. UPS is not going under if the TA is voted down. In fact, the effects will be minor IF they get together quickly and improve the agreement enough so the the next one will pass in August sometime. We may have to work a small amount of time without an agreement. We have done it before, just not the last few contracts.
 
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