IF the contract is voted down, what issues do you think will be addressed?

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
You sky is falling people need to chill. UPS is not going under if the TA is voted down. In fact, the effects will be minor IF they get together quickly and improve the agreement enough so the the next one will pass in August sometime. We may have to work a small amount of time without an agreement. We have done it before, just not the last few contracts.

I believe if the TA is voted down, because of the awareness of the dire situation a strike would cause for both parties, most of the membership would be opposed to the strike, even if they overwhelmingly disapprove of the TA. I think it has been said enough: this isn't 1997; we wouldn't have the support of the public, and in this age of youtube, twitter, etc. where ill-advised actions and the angry response generated by them can be memorialized for future generations of shippers and receivers/consumers, many, many more may never forgive, more so than '97 (and I have encountered shippers who will have nothing to do with UPS because of that, and I was not even around for that strike). And even if we don't strike, it is not in UPS' interests to stall us out for even a couple months, as the jitters it would cause in shippers would have a similar, albeit smaller effect; however, on Wall St. if a company's CEO sneezes half the market will sell because of his 'imminent death/incapacitating illness' and resulting effect it will have on the company. The board doesn't want to provoke them to sell, even if it is only over "jitters".

I.E., the contract can be pushed back across the table for a better revision, without having to be anxious that doing so must mean we will strike.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
You sky is falling people need to chill. UPS is not going under if the TA is voted down. In fact, the effects will be minor IF they get together quickly and improve the agreement enough so the the next one will pass in August sometime. We may have to work a small amount of time without an agreement. We have done it before, just not the last few contracts.

Let me clarify for your readers:

We have done it before, just not since FedEx Ground and FedEx Home have been around.

​That is the dilemma facing all UPSers right now.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
I was told yesterday that even if the master TA is voted in, if a particular local does not accept the master agreement, they get to negotiate further to reconcile the differences. Is this true?
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I was told yesterday that even if the master TA is voted in, if a particular local does not accept the master agreement, they get to negotiate further to reconcile the differences. Is this true?

This is only true in regards to a local supplement, not the NMA. The NMA is approved/rejected by a simple majority, not 2/3, and everyone must abide by the agreement if it is approved. If this were to happen the members of that local would continue to work under the provisions of their current supplement and those of the newly ratified NMA while their local works toward getting their supplement done.
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
Let me clarify for your readers:

We have done it before, just not since FedEx Ground and FedEx Home have been around.

​That is the dilemma facing all UPSers right now.

did you really have to add the colors in there...oh it makes it so much more dramatic...
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
and furthermore........arguably the p/t'ers are made up mostly of 20 somethings who have the majority of the voting power, the most free time and the most to gain do they not????? we are told that this "me" generation is sooooooo tech savvy and more intelligent than generations past, then where are the viral videos??? or catchy memes to further their cause???? in my building the p/t employees are clueless when it comes to union issues, too lazy to read the union board, and expect to be spoon fed info.................if i were a p/t employee today and wanted more $$$ i would have organized all the p/t employee's via the interwebs and demonstrate to the company and the union who's in the cat bird seat........had "they" done this they would be paid better and have to put up with less BS......

think it is just the age group in general that doesnt care, not just upsers in that age group...
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
The second thing is a break-down of whatever the barriers are in place that prevent employees from transferring to different hubs to seek out more opportunities there. In my local there are a dearth of candidates for utility driving jobs. Even if it is only temporary, you are talking months' of FT pay at a rate higher than what most PTmers make (and those whose rate is higher, wouldn't they still be paid at their rate; even if not, FT at $18.75 is significantly better than PT at $21), as well as valuable driving experience that could speed up the process of becoming a FT driver. However, in my center it was announced they are currently training 3 drivers who will actually be able to attain seniority, two of which were loaders; the third is a street hire who replaces an inside employee who had something personal come up that prevented him from completing qualification.

Reasonable rules could be implemented to prevent employees from over-crowding desirable hubs, such as making the 6-1 ratio be filled by an employee from another district, before it is offered to a supe or an off-the-street applicant. Some may this idea on the idea of it being age-related discrimination, but perhaps an age limit can be put in place to prevent long-time employees close to retirement from being able to transfer to a locale with a better pension plan for a couple years, and then retiring, thus over-burdening that local with a higher-than-normal retiree population they must support; similar rules could be put in place for hubs in popular retirement areas, like Phoenix or many hubs in Florida. I know in the Postal Service one can only transfer to a station that someone else wants to transfer out of; the two employees will basically swap places, ensuring neither station is left in a weakened position as far as personnel is concerned; perhaps something similar could be created to give employees who would like to exploit such an opportunity be afforded the chance to, and thus eliminate any hint of ageism.

Allowing PTmers-or anyone else eligible to apply-to pursue career opportunities at other hubs could help lessen the long waits some must endure to become drivers in places where local management doesn't really see a need to create more driving positions. It still allows for "new blood" to be located in hubs, but without the lack of valuable work experience that comes with such new blood, which could lead to improved loads and environments (I suspect those inclined to go after a driving position will want to show they are hard-working, dedicated, capable, with a good work-ethic). In smaller communities that part-timers leave for other opportunities, now new positions are created for the local population to fill. In light of the disadvantage one has with "high turnover"-which a hub in a less desirable location may experience with their more-motivated workers leaving for better opportunities-maybe some type of initiative could be created, like a special class of hourly whose main focus is to train and help new hires, or employees struggling with becoming acclimated to their responsibilities. This position would only be found in hubs where such a condition might be found to exist; they do not become "hourly supervisors', but more like mentors, assisting the supervisors in having to deal with a constant flow of new-hires.. For the teaching-and mentoring-inclined workers of UPS, this may be an incentive to transfer into a hub in a less-desirable location, and if the position is a FT one, provide another avenue for drivers looking to get off the street. One hiccup is how to balance the needs and rights of seniority with the need to have good people doing this, those really interested in helping make the PT workforce stronger and better.

you do know that 99% of the people on here don't have the mental fortitude to read through multiple paragraphs...not a slam on anyone but most of us are just dumb truckdrivers...usually we do better with keywords or short sentences.....ie, beer, women, sex, trucks, boobs, guns, steak...sometimes more isnt better..
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
The second thing is a break-down of whatever the barriers are in place that prevent employees from transferring to different hubs to seek out more opportunities there. In my local there are a dearth of candidates for utility driving jobs. Even if it is only temporary, you are talking months' of FT pay at a rate higher than what most PTmers make (and those whose rate is higher, wouldn't they still be paid at their rate; even if not, FT at $18.75 is significantly better than PT at $21), as well as valuable driving experience that could speed up the process of becoming a FT driver. However, in my center it was announced they are currently training 3 drivers who will actually be able to attain seniority, two of which were loaders; the third is a street hire who replaces an inside employee who had something personal come up that prevented him from completing qualification.

Reasonable rules could be implemented to prevent employees from over-crowding desirable hubs, such as making the 6-1 ratio be filled by an employee from another district, before it is offered to a supe or an off-the-street applicant. Some may this idea on the idea of it being age-related discrimination, but perhaps an age limit can be put in place to prevent long-time employees close to retirement from being able to transfer to a locale with a better pension plan for a couple years, and then retiring, thus over-burdening that local with a higher-than-normal retiree population they must support; similar rules could be put in place for hubs in popular retirement areas, like Phoenix or many hubs in Florida. I know in the Postal Service one can only transfer to a station that someone else wants to transfer out of; the two employees will basically swap places, ensuring neither station is left in a weakened position as far as personnel is concerned; perhaps something similar could be created to give employees who would like to exploit such an opportunity be afforded the chance to, and thus eliminate any hint of ageism.

Allowing PTmers-or anyone else eligible to apply-to pursue career opportunities at other hubs could help lessen the long waits some must endure to become drivers in places where local management doesn't really see a need to create more driving positions. It still allows for "new blood" to be located in hubs, but without the lack of valuable work experience that comes with such new blood, which could lead to improved loads and environments (I suspect those inclined to go after a driving position will want to show they are hard-working, dedicated, capable, with a good work-ethic). In smaller communities that part-timers leave for other opportunities, now new positions are created for the local population to fill. In light of the disadvantage one has with "high turnover"-which a hub in a less desirable location may experience with their more-motivated workers leaving for better opportunities-maybe some type of initiative could be created, like a special class of hourly whose main focus is to train and help new hires, or employees struggling with becoming acclimated to their responsibilities. This position would only be found in hubs where such a condition might be found to exist; they do not become "hourly supervisors', but more like mentors, assisting the supervisors in having to deal with a constant flow of new-hires.. For the teaching-and mentoring-inclined workers of UPS, this may be an incentive to transfer into a hub in a less-desirable location, and if the position is a FT one, provide another avenue for drivers looking to get off the street. One hiccup is how to balance the needs and rights of seniority with the need to have good people doing this, those really interested in helping make the PT workforce stronger and better.

you do know that 99% of the people on here don't have the mental fortitude to read through multiple paragraphs...not a slam on anyone but most of us are just dumb truckdrivers...usually we do better with keywords or short sentences.....ie, beer, women, sex, trucks, boobs, guns, steak...sometimes more isnt better..


I got halfway thru the post and thought wow there is a ton of non essential info here. Quit reading after that. As u said I don't need a life story just the cliff note version.
 

teamsterdan

Well-Known Member
pogs... can't take the time to read a post makes me wonder if they have EVER read much less UNDERSTAND the contracts past or present YET they have the most posts on the board..........now i know we have the offer we do..........
 
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twoweeled

Well-Known Member
There are many issues in this tentative agreement that teamsters are disgruntled with. Which issues do you think will be addressed if any, when a new tentative agreement is drafted? Healthcare seems to be the big one, but I'm hearing complaints all over the board, ie.. starting wages, FT progression, raises, FT job creation, retirement.

And to add to that, how much do you think UPS would concede? My guess is that it will be proportional to the percentage of "no" votes. If the contract only loses by 5%, id bet UPS would only concede enough to sway 6% of voters back to a "yes" vote, it doesnt seem like that would motivate much improvement.

What should be addressed is keeping our healthcare the way it is now on the west coast. That also includes keeping the retirees at the $50 a month rate they've been for years. That also includes, bring the Central States Up to the health plan we have on the West coast. The purpose of contract talks, IS TO PROGRESS, NOT REGRESS!! forward, not backward!
You don't think the international can get aggressive? Think back to the only time the international really cared. When UPS was going after the pension fund! Oh yeah, it really mattered then didn't it???
 

ups clerk

Well-Known Member
What should be addressed is keeping our healthcare the way it is now on the west coast. That also includes keeping the retirees at the $50 a month rate they've been for years. That also includes, bring the Central States Up to the health plan we have on the West coast. The purpose of contract talks, IS TO PROGRESS, NOT REGRESS!! forward, not backward!
You don't think the international can get aggressive? Think back to the only time the international really cared. When UPS was going after the pension fund! Oh yeah, it really mattered then didn't it???
I agree with everything you said. However the company and the union want this passed in the worst way. If it gets defeated, the company will tweak a few things but pretty much leave the rest intact. What they will do is throw in a signing bonus which of course most of the part timers will vote yes on.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
UPS can easily pay two to three dollars more a hour more to hire a good part time work force. As a driver, I have seen the quality of my loads get dramatically worse. The time I waste delivering misloads, finding pkgs, and sorting, at my overtime wage, easily covers their wage increase. Pay them so they want to do a good job, and keep their job.

With that said, do you think the drivers would be willing to take commensurate decrease in their wages?
 

Champ_Here

sheet it missed
i want to freakin drive. 6 years with the company now and still stuck in the building. what will happen between the union and company if they didn't fill the 20,000 FT positions they were supposed to fill since 2008?
 
U

uber

Guest
i want to freakin drive. 6 years with the company now and still stuck in the building. what will happen between the union and company if they didn't fill the 20,000 FT positions they were supposed to fill since 2008?

I feel your pain brother. It took me 5.5 years. You should be coming up soon right? Make the most of your opportunity and starting learning all their verbatim mumbo jumbo, pronto.
 

Coldworld

60 months and counting
I feel your pain brother. It took me 5.5 years. You should be coming up soon right? Make the most of your opportunity and starting learning all their verbatim mumbo jumbo, pronto.

I would have loved to have waited 5 to go driving, took me 8 and the last couple of years they have been going after 2 or 3 so who the hell knows???
 
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