My PAS nightmare


Outa browns on 04/30/09
I was ready to post tonight about how IE etc. must have learned from other messes at centers, but I can't.

We started on pas yesterday. I had a rider with me, taking notes (he was real nice and real good). My route was an absolute mess, it's at least 85% residential, alot of circles, cul de sacs, not at all on any kind of grid, all named streets. We went in circles all day, went back to areas we had already delivered in, skipped streets then went back to them.

Then we spent an hour with the IE guys showing them all the changes that need to be made. He said "It looks like we are relooping your whole route." Well that was what needed to be done. I can't believe they even looked at a map when they looped it, you can see on a map all the mistakes.

No rider today, I showed one FT sup how my first few stops were set up and asked if I should run it like that. He said no I wouldn't, take notes and bring them back. So I spent about 20 minutes during the day, and started with stop 1 and did 9 pages stop by stop street by street, how the circles break in on the through streets etc. When I gave it to the IE guy tonight he said (-------- and ------- ) Our two ft supes, said to leave it the way it is.

Why would anybody want to leave it in the mess it is, don't they trust me, or the guy who was with me, do they just not care? I told them if they don't care I sure don't, I'll just do it stop by stop the way it's in my board.

I just don't get it, this is insane!!!:whiteflag:


Well-Known Member
Remember EDD is a list of stops in the truck. You'll get used to where to look to run it correctly. If it is that bad, your manager won't order you to do in in trace for very long....


Outa browns on 04/30/09
They said I have to do it as it is in the board, and they are not interested in changing it. I said fine, more overtime for me and they agreed, I think those fat slob IE guys are just plain lazy and don't want to do it, they don't care.

As of tonight my braid is erased, no more info from me, I am a UPS robot.:knockedout:


Well-Known Member
For about one month I helped the powers that be do the reloop when my center went to PAS. For that alone I may spend time in Purgatory. They used Mapblast and NOT Google Earth and certainly not the paid real time Google Earth. So the photos were at least 6 months old. And in subdivisions, that makes all the difference.
A question I always wanted to ask the drivers who just start PAS: Can you at least follow what the reloopers are trying to do? Not if it makes sense in the real world, but can you figure out the gist of what they are trying to do?
Just curious


Outa browns on 04/30/09
No, I don't understand HOW they could have looped it that way, just a plain old paper map I have in my truck could show them that. Some of the streets have been there 20 years.

They have me starting with businesses (walmart), then going over two streets to do a couple of streets of residentials, then back over by walmart to do businesses, then from there on it's just hit and miss, the streets aren't even in order.

Then when I get to the next area, they have me drive by the businesses, go do some resis, in a little area, then back out to another area 3-4 streets away do a couple of streets, back to the other area, back out, then back in then back out again. Then I spend a little over an hour working my way through some resis,, then back to the businesses.

I just don't understand why they want me to do this, I believe they are too lazy to fix it and whined to the supes so they said leave it. Oh well, with our later start time, I guess I need the hours, since they've got me down to 8 if I do it efficiently.:peaceful:


Outa browns on 04/30/09
I felt so good about it today until I got back to the center with my notes. It seemed like they really wanted to get it right, drivers and riders spending time again tonight showing them the changes that need to be done. I did a fantstic job on my notes, hi-lo, ranges,:sick: etc, everything they would need and I might as well have sat a read a book.


Least Best Moderator
Staff member
When we went on PAS/EDD, my route was set up completely backwards from the way I ran it. I was to start at the nearest stop from the Center, and then zig-zag back and forth to the farthest end. Problem with that is, all my commercial stops would have been closed at the end of the day. I took a map to the PAS Mapping guy, and he changed my Loop back to where it should be. About 95% of my route is set up in EDD the way it should be. You need to get it fixed before the PAS Team leaves your building, or it will never be right.


Outa browns on 04/30/09
They said they won't, they claim they were told to leave it as it is. It almost seems like they want to punish me, or don't think I know anything. I've been on this route of 18 years, some of the subdivisions were desert when I started, I've been delivering them since before they were there. I just don't get it. It is so frustrating, and they keep saying (in pcms etc, this includes the DV) that it's a work in progress and don't get frustrated just help them fix it, well they don't want my help so the **** with them.


Well-Known Member
The problem most of the time is, it is set up assuming you were going to drive down every street. That's why it works great for peak. On the few times I've done a whole route I have seen some pretty dumb crap. The last time was new years eve. EDD had me cross a mojor arterial street 3 times in a half mile stretch to deliver a bunch of business stops. This was the same area I run my EAM's and I would never think to run multiple stops like that. But what do I know, I'm a UPSzombot.

Old Ups Driver

All this only goes to prove that their primary interest is not in helping the driver. what they really want most is total control over delivery areas with no driver having any area he can call his own. this way they can eliminate routes in a way that drivers can`t really keep track of easily, this way they can get piece and stops counts up on each driver as each route can change and have different areas on it each day. routes are worth less to justify increased stop
counts for each car, piece count up for each car, with more work on each car, not as many cars are needed on road. routes eliminated, drivers can`t really say much about it, goal achieved.
I think the bad looping is just a distraction but they don`t really have to do that because even
if the route is looped perfect in EDD, the preload will screw it up anyhow with bad out of sequence loads and an exponential jump in packages loaded on the wrong car. their was a time
when it was said that the average person would last 10 years as a driver, now I would have to say it is 3 to 5 years. we`ll see what happens as time goes on.

old brown shoe

30 year driver
I ran it the way they set it up for a few weeks and got them to change a few things. Then I just started to run it the most effective way and no one has said a thing since. Staying on trace seems to be real important at first and then not as much as time goes by. They have allot of fires to put out when it first goes in, so just keep on them and save your notes. Sooner or later hopefully someone will help get your trace set up better. Good luck!


free at last.......
The key to a successful implementation of the system is "driver input". Unfortunately, in most cases, that input is totally ignored.

Main reasons the system doesn't work (in my opinion):

The people assigned to set the system up cannot read a map.
They do not listen to driver input.
They are given an unrealistic timeframe to get the system implemented.

It's been almost 3 years since it was implemented here. Still a disaster. I'd like to know the "cost" of this system nationwide on a daily basis. Not counting the initial cost of implementation and the equipment involved (computers, scanning stations, and the extra employees hired to man them). Just the overtime and extra miles along with the meets for off areas and overdispatches.


Outa browns on 04/30/09
I've spent two years doing research on all this so I would know what to expect and my worst nightmares have come true.

However I really thought yesterday that it was going to work great, it seemed they really wanted input and wanted to make it work. I thought oh good they've learned since the other areas i heard about were put in. My rider did a great job, and I must say my preloader is phenomenal, there is hardly a package out of place so far, he is experienced from another area. Although they aren't really pushed yet on the preload so that may change, but I won't blame him because I've done the driver preload for 15 years so I know how hard it is, and I'm sure our jerk supervisor will push them even harder. So far it's been pretty much stop for stop according to edd.

It's the edd mess that I don't understand. I intend to go in a little early today and talk to the center manager and explain to her the entire situation, hopefully she will have something to say about it, she really does want it to work. The DM has been here too, I hope she still is so she can hear what I have to say.

I guess I can let it go and stay this way, that way in awhile when they do the time study maybe I'll gain some huh? I should with all the circles I make going across busy traffic etc. needlessly.


Outa browns on 04/30/09
The problem most of the time is, it is set up assuming you were going to drive down every street. That's why it works great for peak. On the few times I've done a whole route I have seen some pretty dumb crap. The last time was new years eve. EDD had me cross a mojor arterial street 3 times in a half mile stretch to deliver a bunch of business stops. This was the same area I run my EAM's and I would never think to run multiple stops like that. But what do I know, I'm a UPSzombot.

I understand the going down each street, but why would I skip streets then come back to them? Going from Walmart over two streets to do resis then back over by Walmart to deliver businesses, that is insane! The same with driving past the businesses in the other area then back to them an hour later, then back out to finish the resis. It makes no sense and I know if they looked at a map they could see that.

I think it would help if UPS would have the IE guys ride on each route at least once, or why can't they at least drive out to the area and take a look, even just a quick drive through would open their eyes.

Oh..........shoot I know, silly me they're too fat, too smart, too out of shape and they are GOD!!!


Well-Known Member
:whiteflag: I feel your pain, it's been 2 years at our center and what you discribe sounds just like our building. When the PAS team came in we (drivers) were told that they would sit down with each group and get there input, so they could GET it right. Well, they ( PAS team) left earlier then expected and we are left with a mess, and nobody who has enough experience to clean it up.