nothing set in stone

[come on people]

its not what they offer you in this agreement its their ability as to what they will take away upon ratification nothing is set in stone for the length of this contract. by their choosing they can and will modify benefit levels as they see fit and only to their benefit, not ours. by their choosing new language says any portion of our gwi can be reallocated to help fund health and welfare. anybody counting on seeing those raises better be aware. this gives them the right so as we may not see a dime. oh but don't worry, you wont be able to fight it, because once passed, all those yes votes gives them the power!!!! sorry guys but I still vote NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BEE51]

were all voting no in our building!!

 

[PiedmontSteward]

its not what they offer you in this agreement its their ability as to what they will take away upon ratification nothing is set in stone for the length of this contract. by their choosing they can and will modify benefit levels as they see fit and only to their benefit, not ours. by their choosing new language says any portion of our gwi can be reallocated to help fund health and welfare. anybody counting on seeing those raises better be aware. this gives them the right so as we may not see a dime. oh but don't worry, you wont be able to fight it, because once passed, all those yes votes gives them the power!!!! sorry guys but I still vote NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So what do you propose, instead? UPS has made it absolutely clear they will not be staying in the health care business at the conclusion of 2013. Every Taft-Hartley plan in the country has the same boiler plate language regarding the trustees being able to modify the plan without approval from the membership -- this language is in place in case of an economic catastrophe (multiple companies with employees covered by TeamCare going out of business, for example) that could lead to the plan becoming insolvent and everyone receiving no benefits rather than reduced benefits.

The GWI reallocation language is in the NMA for similar reasons. It's in there in case the above mentioned doomsday scenario occurs; I'd personally rather have part of my yearly raises be diverted in order to maintain my health insurance coverage instead of having nothing. Additionally, the GWI diversion cannot be used to prop up pension plans that are in "critical" status (Central States.) Finally, as this language is in the NMA, it has already been approved by the membership (granted, only by 52%) and cannot be changed.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

So what do you propose, instead? UPS has made it absolutely clear they will not be staying in the health care business at the conclusion of 2013. Every Taft-Hartley plan in the country has the same boiler plate language regarding the trustees being able to modify the plan without approval from the membership -- this language is in place in case of an economic catastrophe (multiple companies with employees covered by TeamCare going out of business, for example) that could lead to the plan becoming insolvent and everyone receiving no benefits rather than reduced benefits.

The GWI reallocation language is in the NMA for similar reasons. It's in there in case the above mentioned doomsday scenario occurs; I'd personally rather have part of my yearly raises be diverted in order to maintain my health insurance coverage instead of having nothing. Additionally, the GWI diversion cannot be used to prop up pension plans that are in "critical" status (Central States.) Finally, as this language is in the NMA, it has already been approved by the membership (granted, only by 52%) and cannot be changed.

I wish I could like this a thousand times. Now if only certain people could understand it, lol.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

One thing I forgot to add: I was told during my local's contract meeting that any and all GWI diversions would have to be approved by the local's membership. Several locals across the country have voluntarily passed such referendums in the past in order to shore up their pension funds (thereby increasing benefits for retirees and 'bringing back' early retirement options.)

 

[3 done 3 to go]

One thing I forgot to add: I was told during my local's. contract meeting that any and all GWI diversions would have to be approved by the local's membership. Several locals across the country have voluntarily passed such referendums in the past in order to shore up their pension funds (thereby increasing benefits for retirees and 'bringing back' early retirement options.)

The last sentence is the one I need. But the newbie is screwed. I did my part. Voted NO 3x's. Pt world needs to wake up. Its up to them now

 

[subdivide]

yes------------I mean what you said---NO

 

[East coast navy]

So what do you propose, instead? UPS has made it absolutely clear they will not be staying in the health care business at the conclusion of 2013. Every Taft-Hartley plan in the country has the same boiler plate language regarding the trustees being able to modify the plan without approval from the membership -- this language is in place in case of an economic catastrophe (multiple companies with employees covered by TeamCare going out of business, for example) that could lead to the plan becoming insolvent and everyone receiving no benefits rather than reduced benefits.

The GWI reallocation language is in the NMA for similar reasons. It's in there in case the above mentioned doomsday scenario occurs; I'd personally rather have part of my yearly raises be diverted in order to maintain my health insurance coverage instead of having nothing. Additionally, the GWI diversion cannot be used to prop up pension plans that are in "critical" status (Central States.) Finally, as this language is in the NMA, it has already been approved by the membership (granted, only by 52%) and cannot be changed.

That's one of the reasons why the company wants out of the insurance biz. Yeah they could have used the take the rasies and pension found language when we had a company plan.

​Now they can put the blam on the teamsters because it is now a teamster plan. Then when the pension fails the company will say pensions are not going to work and that will put pressure on the future negotiations for 401k plans.

It's another bull sheet scheme ups is working on.

 

[PiedmontSteward]

That's one of the reasons why the company wants out of the insurance biz. Yeah they could have used the take the rasies and pension found language when we had a company plan.

​Now they can put the blam on the teamsters because it is now a teamster plan. Then when the pension fails the company will say pensions are not going to work and that will put pressure on the future negotiations for 401k plans.

It's another bull sheet scheme ups is working on.

I agree with you -- up until a point. Switching from a company plan to a Taft-Hartley plan is nowhere near the same as switching from a defined pension to a 401k. While UPS is still footing the bill (and will actually be paying MORE in H&W contributions than they are now by the end of the next contract) the liability is off of their books; particularly the $6 billion (and rising) liability of retiree and potential retiree health care costs, which are expected to double over the next 10 years.

 

[East coast navy]

I agree with you -- up until a point. Switching from a company plan to a Taft-Hartley plan is nowhere near the same as switching from a defined pension to a 401k. While UPS is still footing the bill (and will actually be paying MORE in H&W contributions than they are now by the end of the next contract) the liability is off of their books; particularly the $6 billion (and rising) liability of retiree and potential retiree health care costs, which are expected to double over the next 10 years.

Thats not what I meant. They have been fighting the healthcare battles sense healthcare has been given to a employee.

Now they are using Obamacare as a escape goat. Now they can blame Obamacares penalties. Then the pressure will come when the money is needed for healthcare. Then the pensions will start to fail. Then the company will get hits for pension reform. Then when next negotiations on then next contracts will screw us on getting better pensions. So the company is going to say short founds are not going to help with the pensions. Looks like a 401k is your only option. It's like chess and the company is making the best moves.

​So like I said They tackled healthcare. Soon it will be pensions. Watch you will see. If we sit by and say it's something else or that won't happen. We will slow but surely be like the fast food workers.

 

[come on people]

your dreaming if you think just some small part of the gwi may be used. they will take it all. ups is one of the greediest companies on the planet. 4.7 billion profit just wasn't enough for them last year. they will come up with a doomsday plan of their own just to get that over 5 billion dollar tied up in raises for ups teamsters over next 5 years. how many times have you been crapped on by this company????

 

[3 done 3 to go]

Thats not what I meant. They have been fighting the. healthcare battles sense healthcare has been given to a employee.

Now they are using Obamacare as a escape goat. Now they can blame Obamacares penalties. Then the pressure will come when the money is needed for healthcare. Then the pensions will start to fail. Then the company will get hits for pension reform. Then when next negotiations on then next contracts will screw us on getting better pensions. So the company is going to say short founds are not going to help with the pensions. Looks like a 401k is your only option. It's like chess and the company is making the best moves.

​So like I said They tackled healthcare. Soon it will be pensions. Watch you will see. If we sit by and say it's something else or that won't happen. We will slow but surely be like the fast food workers.

BINGO!!!! The Pt 'er will still be sleeping. Our future is in their hands. God help us

 

[RealPerson]

So, this Taft-Hartley Plan. When are we going to see the FINAL things people will be getting and or taken away from current plan?

Heck seems every day things are changing, or very Vague language.

The Phone call the other night said way different things than what was on the DVD and or even on the myteamcare site.

So, Taft-Hartley can't be change when? after the Vote?

Also, does it say ALL members get to vote for the change or just the Trustee's???

I love how in my building the Vote yes people, were running around like kids on a Sugar high last night with the new Benefits they will be getting.......

HA

 

[brownmonster]

Thats not what I meant. They have been fighting the healthcare battles sense healthcare has been given to a employee.

Now they are using Obamacare as a escape goat. Now they can blame Obamacares penalties. Then the pressure will come when the money is needed for healthcare. Then the pensions will start to fail. Then the company will get hits for pension reform. Then when next negotiations on then next contracts will screw us on getting better pensions. So the company is going to say short founds are not going to help with the pensions. Looks like a 401k is your only option. It's like chess and the company is making the best moves.

​So like I said They tackled healthcare. Soon it will be pensions. Watch you will see. If we sit by and say it's something else or that won't happen. We will slow but surely be like the fast food workers.

​Escape goat.

 

[East coast navy]

​Escape goat.

What. You eat goat?

 

[3 done 3 to go]

I think no one knows what for sure until Obamacare actually starts. The Unions were behind it . Now that its closer. They are back pedaling now. Remember " we need to pass it before we need to know what's in it ". All working peoples lives are gonna change. Im old school. No work no food. Did you earn your meal today

 

[Catatonic]

Im old school. No work no food. Did you earn your meal today

I earned my meals for today on June 22 - 24, 2005.

 

[subdivide]

So last night the center manager say's to me " the only reason we exist is to make money for the stock holders". What a dark attitude. This is how the money for those stock holders is made. It's from the day in and day out efforts of the employee's with boots on the ground. It's the only way to UPS profits. The ONLY way.

 

[Catatonic]

So last night the center manager say's to me " the only reason we exist is to make money for the stock holders". What a dark attitude. This is how the money for those stock holders is made. It's from the day in and day out efforts of the employee's with boots on the ground. It's the only way to UPS profits. The ONLY way.

You chase windmills much.
UPS is a business.
The purpose of a business is to make money.

I find it a "dark attitude" (as in obscured), that people think it otherwise.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

your dreaming if you think just some small part of the gwi may be used. they will take it all. ups is one of the greediest companies on the planet. 4.7 billion profit just wasn't enough for them last year. they will come up with a doomsday plan of their own just to get that over 5 billion dollar tied up in raises for ups teamsters over next 5 years. how many times have you been crapped on by this company????

UPS will have no control over the gwi going to Teamcare or Union run pension plans. UPS will not be involved with Teamcare except to say "here is the money the contract tells us to give to Teamcare in your name". That is it. Also, that language that you don't understand is standard language. Get over it.

One other thing. UPS is not the one holding up the raises. Once everything is settled with the supplements you will be backpaid. Also, they will give us everything money-wise that is in the contract. If the union needs it to keep the healthcare running, UPS will still be providing you that money, it will just be going to the healthcare instead of to your paycheck. UPS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TEAMCARE.