"Last, Best, and Final" offer sent to Local 89

stink219

Well-Known Member
What concerns do you have with their leadership? Sounds like they are trying to make up for previous sub-standard contracts, instead of accepting what UPS has offered. I don't know what is going on behind closed doors, but you got to make them think what you are proposing is best for the company as a whole.
Huge numbers in termination, even before this event. Unanswered grievances, poor arbitration results.... I understand them holding UPS accountable, but when you want to hold them to the letter of the law, what will be the response. The BA in any local has only one job, and that's to keep people working. Seems like the antithesis is happening in 804. So far, the results have told us that their E board doesn't have the capability to do what they need. If they focused more on the members and less on a political believe structure then they would be more successful at their job.


Why does every TDU defender never admit they are TDU supporters?
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
Huge numbers in termination, even before this event. Unanswered grievances, poor arbitration results.... I understand them holding UPS accountable, but when you want to hold them to the letter of the law, what will be the response. The BA in any local has only one job, and that's to keep people working. Seems like the antithesis is happening in 804. So far, the results have told us that their E board doesn't have the capability to do what they need. If they focused more on the members and less on a political believe structure then they would be more successful at their job.
I don't know the history of their leadership, but people can not change what has been done in the past, I know I wish I could change a few things. All they can do is to do the best they can today, for the people they represent, and this is what they seem to be doing know. Some things in this rider needs to be changed. Now, if they, like most others get stuck on HC, then I will state that they should come to reason.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
I don't know the history of their leadership, but people can not change what has been done in the past, I know I wish I could change a few things. All they can do is to do the best they can today, for the people they represent, and this is what they seem to be doing know. Some things in this rider needs to be changed. Now, if they, like most others get stuck on HC, then I will state that they should come to reason.
I agree with you that they can't change what happened in the past. But what members can do is change their own future. And it is my opinion that I believe local 804 needs reform. Someone should start a campaign to reform local 804.


Why does every TDU defender never admit they are TDU supporters?
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
I agree with you that they can't change what happened in the past. But what members can do is change their own future. And it is my opinion that I believe local 804 needs reform. Someone should start a campaign to reform local 804.
All my post are referring to L89, I do agree L804 needs to be changed, since they don't seem to learn after their mistakes.
 

govtmule

Member
Thanks to those that had positive and encouraging words of support. We hope our labor issues are resolved soon with just solutions. We need more people to visit facebook...worldport teamsters. Get involved with our discussions and issues.

I have also noticed that there are more than likely paid company administrators that counter unionized arguments with pro company points of view. It seems that their main objective is to use negative hypotheticals to create dissonance. They believe dissonance will chip away at solidarity by putting doubt and confession in peoples minds. These individuals have no data or information that could support their points. Why? There is no way that they could be in a position to have access to that information. Even if they were in the position, it is very unlikely they have the skill set to formulate conclusions that would even support their arguments on this site. If they did have the data, information, and highly needed skill set to counter those pro-union points of view, they would not be on this site posting. For those that post negative hypotheticals, if you don't know what I am talking about, you just made my point. This leads me to conclude that some are low paid administrators hired to advance the company's position.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
Huge numbers in termination, even before this event. Unanswered grievances, poor arbitration results.... I understand them holding UPS accountable, but when you want to hold them to the letter of the law, what will be the response. The BA in any local has only one job, and that's to keep people working. Seems like the antithesis is happening in 804. So far, the results have told us that their E board doesn't have the capability to do what they need. If they focused more on the members and less on a political believe structure then they would be more successful at their job.
This attitude is the antithesis of everything that is wrong with the IBT.
Not everybody deserves the chance to come back to work when discharged, and nobody deserves to have an unrelated, legitimate grievance traded off for somebody else to return to work on an unrelated issue.
Every BA's job is to give due diligence to any and all issues, not just those involving "keeping people working".
Once a BA falls into the trap of continually "trading off" on issues, they are done and forever a whore.
The company can and will manufacture game to facilitate that type of relationship.

I am not going to pretend to know all I need to know about this incident, nor will I predict its final outcome.
I will acknowledge the desperate times that have beset this union and wonder if desperate time didn't call for desperate measures, a notion that made this union what it was.
I sincerely hope these brave men and women aren't made to be martyrs, but lord knows if they are, they wont be the first to wear that title.
It will for sure be a shame and I am praying it doesn't come to that, and moreover, that it isn't in vain and effectuates positive change for the future.
God speed Local 804
 
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Inthegame

Well-Known Member
This attitude is the antithesis of everything that is wrong with the IBT.
Not everybody deserves the chance to come back to work when discharged, and nobody deserves to have an unrelated, legitimate grievance traded off for somebody else to return to work on an unrelated issue.
Every BA's job is to give due diligence to any and all issues, not just those involving "keeping people working".
Once a BA falls into the trap of continually "trading off" on issues, they are done and forever a whore.
The company can and will manufacture game to facilitate that type of relationship.
It's all a matter of degrees, and any BA worth a penny recognizes when he/she's being played. Stinks point was the most important job a BA has is keeping members employed, and of course give attention to all issues, but if you think minor issues don't get traded off for someones job, you've taken permanent residency in the "bubble of goodness". Might not be right in your world but tell that to the guy who's on the outside with a mortgage. Everything is relative and good BA's understand what's what even if members don't.
And now tell me I'm a whore for thinking like this.
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
I didn't want to point this out, but Bubblehead's first sentence is actually agreeing with my point. Meaning,"This statement is everything that right about the IBT." But I'll give him the the credit of understanding what he means.


Why does every TDU defender never admit they are TDU supporters?
 

Anonymous 12

Non active member
I don't know the history of their leadership, but people can not change what has been done in the past, I know I wish I could change a few things. All they can do is to do the best they can today, for the people they represent, and this is what they seem to be doing know. Some things in this rider needs to be changed. Now, if they, like most others get stuck on HC, then I will state that they should come to reason.
It's not for the members it's all for Fred's political agenda and aspirations.
 

Anonymous 12

Non active member
Thanks to those that had positive and encouraging words of support. We hope our labor issues are resolved soon with just solutions. We need more people to visit facebook...worldport teamsters. Get involved with our discussions and issues.

I have also noticed that there are more than likely paid company administrators that counter unionized arguments with pro company points of view. It seems that their main objective is to use negative hypotheticals to create dissonance. They believe dissonance will chip away at solidarity by putting doubt and confession in peoples minds. These individuals have no data or information that could support their points. Why? There is no way that they could be in a position to have access to that information. Even if they were in the position, it is very unlikely they have the skill set to formulate conclusions that would even support their arguments on this site. If they did have the data, information, and highly needed skill set to counter those pro-union points of view, they would not be on this site posting. For those that post negative hypotheticals, if you don't know what I am talking about, you just made my point. This leads me to conclude that some are low paid administrators hired to advance the company's position.
You think they'd be smart enough to figure out the are of the paragraph?
 

Hawfuh Sux

Old Guard Assassin!
I wonder why 407 and Stink never went into management? They are nothing but company men. I also found out through many friends that they have no credibility or pull. Local 407 apparently voted against the current contract and as for Stink, his boy B at Local 251 was defeated by a TDU slate. So again, these guys don't speak for the majority of the people in their locals. They speak on behalf of the elite, the old guard and anyone else that has enriched themselves on the members dime and ruled thru intimidation.
 
I wonder why 407 and Stink never went into management? They are nothing but company men. I also found out through many friends that they have no credibility or pull. Local 407 apparently voted against the current contract and as for Stink, his boy B at Local 251 was defeated by a TDU slate. So again, these guys don't speak for the majority of the people in their locals. They speak on behalf of the elite, the old guard and anyone else that has enriched themselves on the members dime and ruled thru intimidation.
Thats not very nice. They are definitely not management. Even though I disagree with them on this contract, they speak what they believe. and their is nothing wrong with that!
 

stink219

Well-Known Member
I wonder why 407 and Stink never went into management? They are nothing but company men. I also found out through many friends that they have no credibility or pull. Local 407 apparently voted against the current contract and as for Stink, his boy B at Local 251 was defeated by a TDU slate. So again, these guys don't speak for the majority of the people in their locals. They speak on behalf of the elite, the old guard and anyone else that has enriched themselves on the members dime and ruled thru intimidation.
Not quite sure of your philosophy but I'll play..
SUX, I can't wait until the "I told ya so" post. It's coming son, it's coming. You use the TDU scam philosophy system, we will use the educated method. You talk about the union enriching itself on our dime? I've enriched myself on the unions dime. I've made 1000 times more than I've ever paid out to the IBT. Go sell your anti union communistic ideology to the weak willed and the petrified. Let's face facts, every TDU local has been a disaster. I'm not making it up. It's in black and white. Amature hour!


Why does every TDU defender never admit they are TDU supporters?
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
It's not for the members it's all for Fred's political agenda and aspirations.
But if the membership gets a good contract out of it, then that is a good thing. I would rather Fred get a good contract because of his political agenda, than no agenda and get a mediocre contract.
 

Anonymous 12

Non active member
I wonder why 407 and Stink never went into management? They are nothing but company men. I also found out through many friends that they have no credibility or pull. Local 407 apparently voted against the current contract and as for Stink, his boy B at Local 251 was defeated by a TDU slate. So again, these guys don't speak for the majority of the people in their locals. They speak on behalf of the elite, the old guard and anyone else that has enriched themselves on the members dime and ruled thru intimidation.
Are you retarded? Local 407 passed that contract big boy you need to go on your stupid TDU website and check it out. Everything else you posted it's gibberish.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
It's all a matter of degrees, and any BA worth a penny recognizes when he/she's being played. Stinks point was the most important job a BA has is keeping members employed, and of course give attention to all issues, but if you think minor issues don't get traded off for someones job, you've taken permanent residency in the "bubble of goodness". Might not be right in your world but tell that to the guy who's on the outside with a mortgage. Everything is relative and good BA's understand what's what even if members don't.
And now tell me I'm a whore for thinking like this.

First off, thanks for your response and the respectful, intelligent way you expressed yourself.
It was refreshing to see someone act like gentleman.
It's that approach that motivates me to try and explain my thought process.

I would like to point out that I quoted Stink and highlighted this specific sentence, "The BA in any local has only one job, and that's to keep people working".
It was the "only one job" part that struck a nerve with me.
While I understand that you took what you did from the context of the entire post, that is the beauty and the curse of the written word.
The written word is void of inflection and physical expression, often taken differently by each person who reads it.
In saying the BA's "only job", I expounded on that in its literal sense, a premise that I am all to familiar with in my local.
I have had a front row seat to far too many BA's who have embraced the premise that all they needed to do is worry about keeping people employed, turning a blind eye to all other issues.
I have had important safety grievances deadlocked to the state panel, only to have them thrown out as untimely because the BA "forgot" to docket them for 2 straight months.
These same safety issues still persist in the absence of these grievances being heard.
Had the same thing happen with 27 air driver doing ground work grievances.
Of course during these time frames, these same BA's managed to pull several rabbits from a hat, a hat I hope never fits my head.
I absolutely understand that some give and take will always be necessary and prudent, but my comments were aimed at the career horse trader BA.

So hopefully this gives some insight as to my thought process and I apologize if the term "whore" was over the top, but I couldn't find another that illustrated what I was thinking.
 
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