Option weeks and the new contract

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Let's assume you have 5 employees and each has 2 weeks of vacation. 1 chooses first and 5 chooses last. 3 wanted one of the weeks chosen by 1 so he chose a different week. 5 then goes to 1 and says he would like to swap one of his weeks for the week that 3 also wanted. Would it be fair to 3 if 1 and 5 were allowed to swap the week that 3 wanted?

 

[By The Book]

Let's assume you have 5 employees and each has 2 weeks of vacation. 1 chooses first and 5 chooses last. 3 wanted one of the weeks chosen by 1 so he chose a different week. 5 then goes to 1 and says he would like to swap one of his weeks for the week that 3 also wanted. Would it be fair to 3 if 1 and 5 were allowed to swap the week that 3 wanted?

I stay out of the swapping any more. I don't have an answer for this example. As the steward I let the offended party come to me if he feel he has been wronged. I also had my center manager post a typed out paper, basically stating if a week previously closed opens up please check with me it as it may become available due to people switching weeks.

 

[upschuck]

Let's assume you have 5 employees and each has 2 weeks of vacation. 1 chooses first and 5 chooses last. 3 wanted one of the weeks chosen by 1 so he chose a different week. 5 then goes to 1 and says he would like to swap one of his weeks for the week that 3 also wanted. Would it be fair to 3 if 1 and 5 were allowed to swap the week that 3 wanted?

Could easily end up with selling to the highest bidder.

 

[10 point]

Could easily end up with selling to the highest bidder.

That actually happened in our center last year. One week went for $400.00! No lie.
The winner(?) or highest bidder had a week erroneously approved and had reservations somewhere that were nonrefundable and the sup came back and said the company made a mistake so he bought a week from a guy....who charged him $400.00 to switch. Now that's a friend. Not.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I would prefer that vacation selection be changed as follows. First round--everyone chooses 2 weeks. Second round--- everyone left chooses 2 weeks. Third round---everyone left chooses their remaining weeks.

In the Central Region there is an alternative vacation pick procedure similar to what you describe. Anyone interested should look in the Central Region Supplement Art 16 page 213 in my book. The option is brought up during vacation pick time but no one at the Union meeting seems to want to change the way we pick now. Another example of the few deciding for the many.

 

[By The Book]

In the Central Region there is an alternative vacation pick procedure similar to what you describe. Anyone interested should look in the Central Region Supplement Art 16 page 213 in my book. The option is brought up during vacation pick time but no one at the Union meeting seems to want to change the way we pick now. Another example of the few deciding for the many.

That seems to be true, as we members within the local vote in the union leaders, just by doing nothing.

 

[retiredTxfeeder]

As a pretty high seniority driver in my feeder department, I usually got to pick most any week I wanted. I tried to include weeks that had a holiday in them (Memorial Day, Labor Day, July 4th, etc) because of the extra day's pay. Had a low seniority guy approach me last year and ask me to swap my July 4th week with him for the week afterward. His daughter played in a national softball tourney every July 4th, and that week was gone when he picked. I didn't have anything planned, so I agreed to swap with him. We negotiated. I agreed he had to bring me back a t-shirt from Colorado, and come thru with some deer sausage. (he's a big hunter). Deal was done. I didn't feel obligated to ask the 75 drivers between us if it was ok. If they wanted that week off, they could have asked me. As long as management knew about it and they could adjust the cover board accordingly, they didn't care either. Now that I think about it, he *never* did pony up that deer sausage!

 

[ZQXC]

After the vacation weeks are selected, no changes should be considered, be it a swap or a buy out.

Seniority sucks, unless you have it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

retired, I'm not going to quote your post, due to it's length, but do want to respond.

Was that week closed out after you make your selection? If so, that means none of the 75 drivers you spoke of had the chance to bid on it. If I were one of the 75 and I found out you and #76 worked out a deal to swap that week I would be filling out paperwork to make sure that never happened again.

Am I the only one to see just how unfair this practice is?

 

[Tired Driver]

After the vacation weeks are selected, no changes should be considered, be it a swap or a buy out.

Seniority sucks, unless you have it.

Disagree. Life happens and adjustments have to be made. I have had to move vacation weeks many times because of health (going to Mayo Clinic), family weddings made after vacation bids, and other life events. You can plan, but life happens.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Disagree. Life happens and adjustments have to be made. I have had to move vacation weeks many times because of health (going to Mayo Clinic), family weddings made after vacation bids, and other life events. You can plan, but life happens.

...which is all well and good but to swap vacation weeks that had been closed without checking with any of the drivers who may have wanted to pick that week is just plain unfair...

 

[retiredTxfeeder]

Sometimes things come up. Management allows us to do that. I had been asked in the past to swap, but always turned them down. I had something planned for those weeks. But putting myself in their shoes, would I want to miss a week that I could spend with my daughter doing something that she loves to do? No. Accompany her out of state and be her chaperone? Definitely. Hopefully, he will pay it forward and do the same when he gets up there in seniority. Anybody below me in seniority could have asked me and I would have swapped with them as well.

 

[Packmule]

Mixed feelings on the swapping deal. I can see being willing when something seriously pressing comes up. My concern is however that once the practice takes root, there will be endless guilt trips and seriously hard feelings when a senior driver says no.
Lower guys need remember that higher guys spent decades building their seniority, and dealt with just as many disappointments as younger guys are experiencing now. That's just life at UPS. Some things are great, some things just suck. Actually, that's just life.
I vote no.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I agree. Opening up a big can of worms. Life does happen and if a driver needs a few unexpected days off I am there for him . Not switching because he wants to go to Disney world and could not get the week off.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I have no problem with swapping weeks.

I do have a problem when drivers that may have wanted one of those weeks are passed over/ignored when the swaps are made.

 

[Rainman]

I have no problem with swapping weeks.

I do have a problem when drivers that may have wanted one of those weeks are passed over/ignored when the swaps are made.

Their problem. If it meant that much to them, they should have come to you. We are all grown people. It's up to us to seek out what we want, not our problem if someone else asks first.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Their problem. If it meant that much to them, they should have come to you. We are all grown people. It's up to us to seek out what we want, not our problem if someone else asks first.

How can we seek out what we want when the deal(s) are made behind closed doors?

I'll repeat myself----the only way a swap should be approved is if each and every driver between the two drivers in question is asked if they want the week(s) in question.

 

[cachsux]

Each post seems to address a junior person seeking out a senior persons vacation week and the feelings that the people of seniority in between should have been given the opportunity to change.

What if it's the senior employee seeking out a week from a junior? Since he's initiating the swap how should the bypassed people in the middle look upon this?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

In your example each of the people in between would have already had the opportunity to bid on the week(s) in question so, no, they would not have to be consulted and the swap would be made and the cash exchanged directly.

 

[oldngray]

In your example each of the people in between would have already had the opportunity to bid on the week(s) in question so, no, they would not have to be consulted and the swap would be made and the cash exchanged directly.

Not necessarily true. Possible the people in between had opportunity to bid but couldn't get that week since it was already closed out by the more senior driver selecting it. In that situation it would be wrong for an even lower seniority person swap and get that week.