Southern Baptist Convention Throws Out Saddleback Church

[vantexan]

Who told you that God speaks to you through his written word

My personal relationship with God; God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit is my priority.

You know good and well.

 

[vantexan]

IMO no,

That Is why I believe the scripture you cited is so unloving and so out there that I believe in spirit that this is just representative of Paul’s unresolved personal struggles with doing and saying the right things and not doing and saying the wrong things, and his imperfections as they expose themselves in his personal interactions through letters and should be taken as just that. Probably a mistake on Paul’s part.

I do not ignore any scripture. I do disagree with some and fail to live up to most.

Thankfully I personally met Jesus and do hold high His life and teachings though.

It was told to us through Paul and isn't our right to just ignore it. As was already pointed out Jesus chose 12 men as Apostles. He didn't make Mary and Martha apostles. Church elders and deacons are men. Have always been.

 

[BrownFlush]

Name calling happens when you run out of good arguments, so you resort to personal attacks. Happened several times in this thread.

Your first comment in the thread was calling me a legalist.
Run along now. Give God whatever you want when you want. He’ll be all happy inside with whatever you do.

 

[upschuck]

Church elders and deacons are men. Have always been.

Phoebe?

 

[BrownFlush]

Phoebe?

It would be tough for Phoebe to be " the husband of one wife". A qualification for an Elder as is written it Timothy and Titus.

 

[upschuck]

Your first comment in the thread was calling me a legalist.
Run along now. Give God whatever you want when you want. He’ll be all happy inside with whatever you do.

You can't tell me you can't see the difference.

 

[upschuck]

It would be tough for Phoebe to be " the husband of one wife". A qualification for an Elder as is written it Timothy and Titus.

She was a deacon.

 

[El Correcto]

Our opinions aside, it says that with the clear and concise words in the verse.

I'm willing to hear your opinion about why the Bible is wrong though. Go ahead buddy.

Because it preaches inequality?

 

[vantexan]

She was a deacon.

No, she helped out, was of service, but not a deacon. But was obviously admired by Paul for her great service. Not saying women can't be of service but leadership roles were filled by men.

 

[Integrity]

Yeah man..Jesus never stood up for what the truth was. I like his colors, though.

Did you ever meet/encounter our Lord Jesus in a personal way?

You know nothing of what the scriptures teach.

He seems to know plenty. You just see it differently.

"Then the disciples came and said to him, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard you say this?” He answered, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides leading the blind and both will fall into the pit."-Matthew 15:12-14

It does appear that Jesus’s teaching did offend the fanatical established religionist of His day.

The work and ministry of the Holy Spirit seems to do the same to some of the established religionists of this day.

Run along now. Believe what you want. God will be happy with whatever that is.

God does so love the world.

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

Because it preaches inequality?

It does not "preach inequality", it gives guidance on how to structure leadership in the way that is best for the whole of the church. It also gives a lot of guidance on what kind of men should lead.

Men and women are not equal in every way. This is undeniable except in the minds of progressives and secular humanists that wish to deny reality of the biological, personality, social and cultural differences between men and women.

Denying reality in the name of "equality" is just ridiculous.

 

[upschuck]

No, she helped out, was of service, but not a deacon. But was obviously admired by Paul for her great service. Not saying women can't be of service but leadership roles were filled by men.

Most all versions have a footnote that also says "or deaconess".

 

[Thebrownblob]

The whole idea that Jesus values men over women is simply confusion and misunderstanding, because his ways are not our ways.

Jesus does not value leadership over service. They play an important role, but neither one is more important than the other.

John 13:14–17, He instructs His disciples: If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.

 

[Integrity]

Holy Moly ! We've got a winner here, Johnny!
Were you on the road to Damascus?

No.

Wait.. that was another Apostle.

I don’t think he was yet. I believe he was still Pharisee of a Pharisee when they met.

Plese pm me!

I will, think about it. Haven’t we tried this before. I don’t think it worked out. Not sure.

I've got to know where you live.

Anonymity, sorry no can do.

I have to be in the same room with you if only for just a few seconds! lol!lol!lol!

LOL!

 

[Integrity]

You know good and well.

Ok. I get it.

You believe God told you that God speaks to you through his written word.

So God has actually spoken to you.

Glad to hear it.

 

[Integrity]

It was told to us through Paul and isn't our right to just ignore it.

Didn’t ignore it, read it, sought guidance, After much contemplation I to believe it was most likely a mistake by Paul, reflecting his human imperfections in this mistake.

As was already pointed out Jesus chose 12 men as Apostles.

You can’t really know that this is all there is to the story, Jesus did much more than is documented in the Bible. A real lot more.

He didn't make Mary and Martha apostles.

You can’t know this for sure. For the Bible specifically say he did not make them apostles.

Church elders and deacons are men.

Not always.

Have always been.

Not true.

 

[Integrity]

Because it preaches inequality?

It does seem to do that.

Interesting to me to note that Paul also wrote somewhere else that we are all one in Christ. There’s no slave, no free person , no male, no female, no Jew, no Gentile.

Now this seems to be closer to the teaching of Jesus. This doesn’t conflict with my spirit within.

 

[Integrity]

It does not "preach inequality", it gives guidance on how to structure leadership in the way that is best for the whole of the church. It also gives a lot of guidance on what kind of men should lead.

I think it does encourage inequality?

Good in theory, but I sat on 2 Senior Pastor Search Committees and both times they did the education check before the background check. The others seem irritated that I thought the background check should be first .Never serve on one of those again.

Men and women are not equal in every way.

I believe in Christ Jesus they are.

This is undeniable except in the minds of progressives and secular humanists that wish to deny reality of the biological, personality, social and cultural differences between men and women.

Labels.

Denying reality in the name of "equality" is just ridiculous.

No comment.

 

[Integrity]

Literally the same thing.

IMO not the same.

So much Asperger's up in here.

 

[Thebrownblob]

It does seem to do that.

Interesting to me to note that Paul also wrote somewhere else that we are all one in Christ. There’s no slave, no free person , no male, no female, no Jew, no Gentile.

Now this seems to be closer to the teaching of Jesus. This doesn’t conflict with my spirit within.

Once again, it’s because you do not understand his Ways everyone has a roll and that does not mean we are not equal

John13:
13You call me ‘teacher’ and ‘master,’ and rightly so, for indeed I am.h
14If I, therefore, the master and teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash one another’s feet.
15I have given you a model to follow, so that as I have done for you, you should also do.i
16Amen, amen, I say to you, no slave is greater than his master nor any messenger* greater than the one who sent him.j
17If you understand this, blessed are you if you do it.
18I am not speaking of all of you. I know those whom I have chosen. But so that the scripture might be fulfilled, ‘The one who ate my food has raised his heel against me.’k
19From now on I am telling you before it happens, so that when it happens you may believe that I AM.
20Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever receives the one I send receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.”

So was Jesus telling him you’re not equal because he said he was master and teacher?

Is Jesus telling people he’s not speaking to them and they are not equal when he says I am not speaking to all of you?

He told us if we understood what he meant then we are blessed. Do you understand Jesus is role for human beings. Again, they are difficult to understand because we do not think like a Christ.

Also, by rejecting Paul, and his teachings do you not believe you’re rejecting Christ?
He said, in this passage, whoever received the one I sent receives me.