Ask a Feeder Driver, Feeder Driver FAQ

[Thebrownblob]

How does it not record video on the inside? Did UPS get a special version? During an "emergency event" it saves the video starting about 8 or 10 sec prior to the event to see what the driver and forward camera sees correct? Maybe I missed something but that's how I remember it. The device has a somewhat high resolution camera facing both ways, Would like to hear the opinion of any steward who has possibly dealt with any discipline.

I would speculate UPS hides this footage but the device clearly can record inside. Maybe feeders is different?

Dashboard Cameras: 7 Clips of Lifesaving Footage

www.lytx.com

Yes, there’s been lots of speculation, but the internal camera is deactivated and is not used. It only uses infrared to track movement.

What would they be using it for if they’re not using it for discipline? They certainly can’t use it for discipline because it would be an integrity issue on their part.

I am a steward. There has been no discipline because there’s none to give contractually.

We rarely even talk about it anymore

Welcome to the conversation that has been had about two years ago and we’ve moved on. They’re not getting rid of them.

 

[oldngray]

Yes, there’s been lots of speculation, but the internal camera is deactivated and is not used. It only uses infrared to track movement.

What would they be using it for if they’re not using it for discipline? They certainly can’t use it for discipline because it would be an integrity issue on their part.

I am a steward. There has been no discipline because there’s none to give contractually.

We rarely even talk about it anymore

Do you believe they will never turn it on if it has that capability? Even if it is only for internal use and can't be used for discipline.

 

[moldsporh]

The device doesn’t record video on the inside.

Welcome to the conversation that has been had about two years ago and we’ve moved on. They’re not getting rid of them.

I didn't know 2 years ago was your reply today....

I remember all the talk, but wanted to add to today's conversation. I thought Lytx overlayed an AI interpretation on the actual video, and the infrared is used for night viewing aid.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I didn't know 2 years ago was your reply today....

I remember all the talk, but wanted to add to today's conversation. I thought Lytx overlayed an AI interpretation on the actual video, and the infrared is used for night viewing aid.

Infrared is used all day. As a matter, fact, you can buy a special pair of glasses that don’t allow the infrared to detect you at all because it follows your eyes. There is no full video on the inside that is taken only the out facing camera records if there’s an incident. And quite frankly every time it’s been used here for an accident it actually helped drivers get out of being charged with an accident

 

[moldsporh]

Infrared is used all day. As a matter, fact, you can buy a special pair of glasses that don’t allow the infrared to detect you at all because it follows your eyes. There is no full video on the inside that is taken only the out facing camera records if there’s an incident. And quite frankly every time it’s been used here for an accident it actually helped drivers get out of being charged with an accident

I believe what you are saying, and I believe that's also based on what UPS has told us and from other sources before the launch. What I have a hard time believing, is UPS being 100% honest about the driver facing camera. The camera is a 1920x1080 camera, mounted to a PCB. The infrared lights are a row of lights at the base of the unit..independent of the camera. The camera is needed to process the distracted behavior generated through the AI processing.

Does UPS disable the driver facing camera and if so, how can it still look for distractions? The infrared is a light emitter...it's doesn't take in information.

Also, if the camera doesn't record, why can't we block it?

Not my fight, but it just doesn't sound like we are accurately informed by UPS.

 

[Thebrownblob]

I believe what you are saying, and I believe that's also based on what UPS has told us and from other sources before the launch. What I have a hard time believing, is UPS being 100% honest about the driver facing camera. The camera is a 1920x1080 camera, mounted to a PCB. The infrared lights are a row of lights at the base of the unit..independent of the camera. The camera is needed to process the distracted behavior generated through the AI processing.

Does UPS disable the driver facing camera and if so, how can it still look for distractions? The infrared is a light emitter...it's doesn't take in information.

Also, if the camera doesn't record, why can't we block it?

Not my fight, but it just doesn't sound like we are accurately informed by UPS.

Well, I’ve been intimately involved in all kinds of discipline cases and even when they do this “coaching”. If someone somewhere has video, no one knows about it and no one has used it for anything. UPS is not in charge of this information. By the way it’s a third-party company that sends the video of the front facing camera to UPS.. there’s been a few times when we had accidents. We couldn’t even get the video in a timely manner because we had to wait on the third-party company.. not to mention there’s been drivers who’ve got their jobs back due to fatalities, and the company was questioning whether or not they were distracted in the cab, but there was no video seems like there would be liability if UPS had video and refused to provide it when it got that far in the process.

I said it doesn’t record video. It does record certain movements.

And I would say if you like your job do not tamper with UPS equipment we’ve had 30+ year drivers sent down the road for messing with the equipment.

 

[moldsporh]

Good to know, I'm not doubting you, just questioning areas we don't have privilege to

seems like there would be liability if UPS had video and refused to provide it when it got that far in the process.

That is one area of question...(If video evidence was possible) I don't think UPS would provide video of an in-cab distraction if the company was at fault in a fatality....this includes the driver being distracted. I don't know how a court could get involved but my point is UPS would protect the company wallet if it could.

I agree though, would likely be a liability if they withheld information.

And I would say if you like your job do not tamper with UPS equipment we’ve had 30+ year drivers sent down the road for messing with the equipment.

Oh for sure that's always been a guaranteed ticket out the door.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Good to know, I'm not doubting you, just questioning areas we don't have privilege to

That is one area of question...(If video evidence was possible) I don't think UPS would provide video of an in-cab distraction if the company was at fault in a fatality....this includes the driver being distracted. I don't know how a court could get involved but my point is UPS would protect the company wallet if it could.

I agree though, would likely be a liability if they withheld information.

Oh for sure that's always been a guaranteed ticket out the door.

In the case of pedestrian fatalities, they definitely have lawyers and courts involved.

 

[Jones]

And I would say if you like your job do not tamper with UPS equipment we’ve had 30+ year drivers sent down the road for messing with the equipment.

A sleeper team out of Balmd rear-ended someone, and the investigation revealed that they had disabled the AEB system. You can probably guess how that ended.

 

[Well-Known Member]

How does it not record video on the inside? Did UPS get a special version? During an "emergency event" it saves the video starting about 8 or 10 sec prior to the event to see what the driver and forward camera sees correct? Maybe I missed something but that's how I remember it. The device has a somewhat high resolution camera facing both ways, Would like to hear the opinion of any steward who has possibly dealt with any discipline.

I would speculate UPS hides this footage but the device clearly can record inside. Maybe feeders is different?

Dashboard Cameras: 7 Clips of Lifesaving Footage

www.lytx.com

I know this is last year, but it still applies. Nothing has changed.

 

[Cementups]

I know this is last year, but it still applies. Nothing has changed.

View attachment 518833

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people there is not inward active camera they will dispute you.
Though, we did have a driver disciplined because of recording reflection of the driver using his phone while driving. Crazy.

 

[Well-Known Member]

Though, we did have a driver disciplined because of recording reflection of the driver using his phone while driving. Crazy.

Was he disciplined, or just talked to? How could he have been disciplined when the contract expressly forbids discipline from the forward-facing camera?


NMUPSA

ARTICLE 6.

Section 6. Technology and Discipline

Vehicles may not be equipped with inward-facing cameras. Forward-facing capability of cameras shall not be used for discipline.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Was he disciplined, or just talked to? How could he have been disciplined when the contract expressly forbids discipline from the forward-facing camera?


NMUPSA

ARTICLE 6.

Section 6. Technology and Discipline

Vehicles may not be equipped with inward-facing cameras. Forward-facing capability of cameras shall not be used for discipline.

Doubtful he received any discipline. Perhaps they brought him in and talk to him. And showed him the video which is about all they can do.

 

[moldsporh]

I know this is last year, but it still applies. Nothing has changed.

I remember the talk about this, and I remember the letter from Lytx. This is what I don't think people understand...and please correct me if I'm wrong.

"the DriveCam @ devices being utilized by UPS have been

configured such that they do not record audio and do not record video of the

driver. The audio and inside lens video recording functionalities have been disabled"

The wording shows the device itself won't record...aka " store data" but it still needs to monitor the driver to use the stored AI data to alert the driver and UPS of distractions.

That doesn't mean UPS cannot view the live data while driving after repeated alerts, then screen record the live stream. This wipes the hands of Lytx and their promise that the device itself doesn't record.

Doesn't matter how many times you tell people there is not inward active camera they will dispute you.

Dispute what? The big round camera lens facing the driver?

Was he disciplined, or just talked to? How could he have been disciplined when the contract expressly forbids discipline from the forward-facing camera?


NMUPSA

ARTICLE 6.

Section 6. Technology and Discipline

Vehicles may not be equipped with inward-facing cameras. Forward-facing capability of cameras shall not be used for discipline.

This is the bread and butter why the inside camera needs to be blocked off. Why is it not? Because it needs it for real-time AI processing of the driver from the internal video feed of the driver facing camera.

Again, that doesn't mean it's "recording " you....but if it cannot monitor you, why is it there? Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

I remember the talk about this, and I remember the letter from Lytx. This is what I don't think people understand...and please correct me if I'm wrong.

"the DriveCam @ devices being utilized by UPS have been

configured such that they do not record audio and do not record video of the

driver. The audio and inside lens video recording functionalities have been disabled"

The wording shows the device itself won't record...aka " store data" but it still needs to monitor the driver to use the stored AI data to alert the driver and UPS of distractions.

That doesn't mean UPS cannot view the live data while driving after repeated alerts, then screen record the live stream. This wipes the hands of Lytx and their promise that the device itself doesn't record.




Dispute what? The big round camera lens facing the driver?

This is the bread and butter why the inside camera needs to be blocked off. Why is it not? Because it needs it for real-time AI processing of the driver from the internal video feed of the driver facing camera.

Again, that doesn't mean it's "recording " you....but if it cannot monitor you, why is it there? Again, correct me if I'm wrong.

If @NAHimHOOD was still here, he would have extra cash to loan you to hire an attorney to file suit and get to the bottom of this. Since hea not, and I don't have it, you're gonna have to litigate this on your own. Regardless of any information provided, you seem certain that this is your hill, please keep us informed.

 

[Well-Known Member]

That doesn't mean UPS cannot view the live data while driving after repeated alerts, then screen record the live stream. This wipes the hands of Lytx and their promise that the device itself doesn't record.

UPS does not have access to any of these features you mention on the cameras.

UPS only gets reports about logged distractions and gets sent the forward-facing videos from a third party after a review.

UPS has no access to "look" at anything live from the cameras or inward-facing sensors.

 

[Brownwind]

UPS does not have access to any of these features you mention on the cameras.

UPS only gets reports about logged distractions and gets sent the forward-facing videos from a third party after a review.

UPS has no access to "look" at anything live from the cameras or inward-facing sensors.

Just checking. Did everyone else get the little video and the three questions training about the camera

If it was already posted I only went back a page and missed it.

 

[Thebrownblob]

UPS does not have access to any of these features you mention on the cameras.

UPS only gets reports about logged distractions and gets sent the forward-facing videos from a third party after a review.

UPS has no access to "look" at anything live from the cameras or inward-facing sensors.

Yep, sometimes they can look at it in a few hours and sometimes in a few days. Definitely never live feed.

 

[Cementups]

Was he disciplined, or just talked to? How could he have been disciplined when the contract expressly forbids discipline from the forward-facing camera?


NMUPSA

ARTICLE 6.

Section 6. Technology and Discipline

Vehicles may not be equipped with inward-facing cameras. Forward-facing capability of cameras shall not be used for discipline.

Yes he was. I forget all the exact details of it and can't look it up since I have left my local feeder facebook page (too many rats).
I forget waht stupid loophole they used to get away with it. But it was grieved.

 

[Jones]

Yes he was. I forget all the exact details of it and can't look it up since I have left my local feeder facebook page (too many rats).
I forget waht stupid loophole they used to get away with it. But it was grieved.

They probably just showed him the video and asked him if he was talking on the phone while driving. If he admitted to it then technically they can say they disciplined him based on his own statement.