Fired for dishonesty

[The Driver]

You poor slobs are overpaid.

Come do my route for a couple weeks, any time of the year, I'll sit in the jump seat and you tell me at that point that I'm overpaid.

 

[WorknLateHuh]

This is why you guys make the big bucks! To put up with this crap.

We get paid the "big bucks" just to follow simple directions and methods. It's really not difficult at all. you could learn a thing or two Xanosuke

 

[Xanosuke2]

So you used to do tons and tons of work way to fast and then at a certain point you snapped because management was piling absurd amounts of work on you?

An all to common story at UPS unfortunately.

Yup and I have two bad knees from it...part time I unloaded and needed 3-4 sorters, went to sort isle and sorted 3-4 unloaders >.> went driving and hold the record for being 3 hours under allowed...so yeah...injured my left knee and had surgery came back and decided enough was enough and they hate me for it

 

[Re-Raise]

Yup and I have two bad knees from it...part time I unloaded and needed 3-4 sorters, went to sort isle and sorted 3-4 unloaders >.> went driving and hold the record for being 3 hours under allowed...so yeah...injured my left knee and had surgery came back and decided enough was enough and they hate me for it

I've never attempted to run a route 3 hours under...and I've never been fired in 31 years here. Coincidence?

 

[dookie stain]

3 hours under?! Wtf hahaha...I was trying to get the record for highest over allowed once and got a little above 7.5 over...some guy has 8...that’s impressive

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Story isn’t hard to follow, I sheeted up a package NI1 bc to my understanding no one is able to accept after 4:00pm. It showed off area in diad bc I was at the guard shack and not the docks. They sent security to investigate and found out they had a 2nd and 3rd shift. The lady that’s over receiving leaves at 3:15 and told me earlier that day if I had found the missing package to bring it the following day. There’s no option in the diad for that and no one from the company called in a complaint or a missing package investigation. This is just an example of UPS at its finest. The only real thing I’ve done to put a target on my back is the shop Stewart and me are really close. I’ve had fmla for my wife being pregnant this year, went out on workers comp bc I got hurt on the job, filed an osha complaint on a supervisor that made me work in a leaking hazmat and told me to take it back to the company(which she then proceeded to yell at me publicly the next day calling me a lier and that I didn’t say it was a hazmat, got a witness statement that heard me tell her it was when I called to inform her), so yeah they hate my guts.

This is apparently a common theme amongst some management types. I honestly don't know how many of these accounts are true, or the full story, but there seems to be a lot of cases where management will trump up charges, and even redefine terms, in order to claim that an employee has committed a terminable offense.

My take is that any termination should have some formal investigation in order to attempt to prevent wrongful termination. An investigation wherein the employee in question is not interviewed is not a proper investigation. In your case, the dishonesty charge seems to have been trumped up. If you had actually lied about something, or actively tried to cover something up, that would constitute dishonesty. Failing to follow the methods is not, in and of itself, dishonest. Even if you swore an oath with your right hand raised and your left hand on the contract that you would follow all the methods perfectly every day, that would still not make you dishonest, simply imperfect, which we all are.

In your case, however, I can see little to criticize about what you did. You drove out of your way to make the attempt at the address of the business, using your area knowledge to determine how best to make the attempt. The only thing I would have done differently might have been to check with the guard, if one were present, to verify that you would be unable to make the delivery. You might as well since you drove all the way back there.

I was trained to sheet businesses as closed if you are unable to deliver to them, but that's a center by center or even a supervisor by supervisor situation. If this is something you've been warned about in the past, and they went through progressive discipline, it would be a different story. That's why I have a hard time understanding why these managers use this "tactic". The termination is going to be rescinded, so why waste everyone's time? The very fact that employees get their jobs back supports the argument that they shouldn't have been terminated to begin with.

 

[Mugarolla]

what else Can I do?

Here's where you can start.

Well. from your posts, you have issues, and you wonder why they want to get rid of you.

this is just a case of management digging for issues that don’t exist

Arguing that it’s failure to follow their stupid, “methods and procedures” bull crap

That is the Ups I’m currently dealing with

I’m not the only one that does the business I sheeted up that way, just the only one getting spanked

I know in Ups’ eyes we are all no good dirty lying slaves

Even still, my sup doesn’t care and wants to try and burn me on dishonesty

I could though probably write a book of the shady stuff my center does

If you knew the business was closed after 4, why did you drive all the way back to it just to sheet it "by" the guard shack?

Did you sheet it when you found it, or did you really go to the guard shack?

If the GPS location shows you scanned it at the guard shack, you should be fine. If the GPS shows you scanned it miles away, you need to knock that chip off your shoulder, come clean and beg.

One suggestion....do not lie to your BA. He needs to know all the facts, all the methods that you did not follow, if he has a chance of getting you back to work.

And here we go again. If you had been here 3 months, I'd cut you some slack.

You know better.

 

[Xanosuke2]

Here's where you can start.

Well. from your posts, you have issues, and you wonder why they want to get rid of you.

















If you knew the business was closed after 4, why did you drive all the way back to it just to sheet it "by" the guard shack?

Did you sheet it when you found it, or did you really go to the guard shack?

If the GPS location shows you scanned it at the guard shack, you should be fine. If the GPS shows you scanned it miles away, you need to knock that chip off your shoulder, come clean and beg.

One suggestion....do not lie to your BA. He needs to know all the facts, all the methods that you did not follow, if he has a chance of getting you back to work.

And here we go again. If you had been here 3 months, I'd cut you some slack.

You know better.

No I’m not perfect, no one is. I’ve sheeted up packages off area before that I knew were closed and they suspended me for it. I drove back to the business to be as close as possible, without going to the receiving dock bc that is what they have instructed me to do. Now weither or not I have done something else with what they are accusing me of, I haven’t.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I’ve sheeted up packages off area before that I knew were closed and they suspended me for it.

And now.... the whole story comes out.


The company looks harder at people that have a history of it.

And yet, it happened again. Drivers are "creatures of habit".


A phone call to your supe, would have taken the onus off you.

Enjoy your unpaid time off. Remember.... 3rd time is a charm.



-Bug-

 

[Xanosuke2]

And now.... the whole story comes out.


The company looks harder at people that have a history of it.

And yet, it happened again. Drivers are "creatures of habit".


A phone call to your supe, would have taken the onus off you.

Enjoy your unpaid time off. Remember.... 3rd time is a charm.



-Bug-

That doesn’t have anything to do with it. I was on area this time. The board showed off area only bc the delivery point is too far from the guard shack. And yes I could have just went to the guard shack, but does anyone go into a pickup after they’ve called and told you they don’t have anything for the day? No! You drive to the pickup so you’re not off area, stop complete it, then continue on your day.

So me previously talking to the receiving lady about not being able to find her package, her telling me she leaves at 3:30pm and just bring it by the next day, and previous efforts trying to deliver to the business after 4:00pm lead to me not being able to deliver the package, I drove up there and sheeted it NI1 as I was instructed to do in the past with sheeting up closed business not on area.

The sheeting up a business closed off area I only got suspended instead of discharged bc it was deemed failure to follow methods instead of dishonest. Another driver came forward and said the business is never open and she has to take it to the guys house, so it wasn’t deemed dishonest.

And I guess to add clarity, everything in our center is considered failure to follow methods and procedures. No Ups socks? Failure to follow methods and procedures. Late air? That’s your second failure offense and will be issued a suspension. Attendance issue? Well that’s grounds for a working termination bc it’s your third failure to follow methods and procedures...if that helps any.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

That doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Tell that to a State Panel or Arbitrator.

The board showed off area only bc the delivery point is too far from the guard shack.

The DIAD lights up in red.... and you don't think to CYA ?

does anyone go into a pickup after they’ve called and told you they don’t have anything for the day? No!

I'm starting to get the picture.

Is having customers call you, the company method ?


I'm trying to help you.

I've seen this too many times to remember. You made a decision, and now

you're going to incur the consequences. Own up to the mistake, and things

will go much better. Being in a state of denial and using excuses like "I'm friends

with the Steward or I've been on workers comp before" will get you nowhere.



-Bug-


* It's a rookie mistake.... to trust a customer *

 

[Xanosuke2]

Tell that to a State Panel or Arbitrator.





The DIAD lights up in red.... and you don't think to CYA ?





I'm starting to get the picture.

Is having customers call you, the company method ?


I'm trying to help you.

I've seen this too many times to remember. You made a decision, and now

you're going to incur the consequences. Own up to the mistake, and things

will go much better. Being in a state of denial and using excuses like "I'm friends

with the Steward or I've been on workers comp before" will get you nowhere.



-Bug-


* It's a rookie mistake.... to trust a customer *

I’ve not denied anything other than dishonesty. Could I have went to the guard shack? Sure. Could I have called my sup? Sure. Was what I did dishonesty? No. Laziness and failure to follow delivery methods sure, but not dishonesty.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Laziness and failure to follow delivery methods sure, but not dishonesty.

Well....

It's time to "take a bite" of that humble pie.



-Bug-

 

[Xanosuke2]

Well....

It's time to "take a bite" of that humble pie.



-Bug-

That is the game plan. Like I originally asked, I was looking for ways to prove it isn’t dishonesty. They can write me up a million times for all I care, but I’m not letting them spin it as I’m dishonest.

 

[el blanco]

missed!

done deal

 

[Mugarolla]

And now.... the whole story comes out.

It usually does.

Could I have went to the guard shack?

I thought you said you did, that you just didn't go inside the guard shack?

Which is it?

Was what I did dishonesty?

If what you said you did is what you did, although it seems your story keeps changing, then no, it is not dishonest.

But UPS believes that you sheeted a business as NI1 at 4PM when there were people there to accept the package. They believe that you did not even make an attempt.

And why are you sheeting a business as NI1 instead of CLO1? Maybe some of the issues with your methods.

Laziness and failure to follow delivery methods sure, but not dishonesty.

Actually depends on the GPS coordinates of the scan. If you were truly at the guard shack, and the cosignee told you she leaves at 3:30PM and to bring it back the next day if you find it, then no.

I still have a feeling we're not getting the whole story.

Now weither or not I have done something else with what they are accusing me of, I haven’t.

Depends on what the consignee told UPS, what the guard told UPS and the coordinates of the scan.

If this business has cameras, would they show your truck there at 4PM?

 

[Xanosuke2]

It usually does.



I thought you said you did, that you just didn't go inside the guard shack?

Which is it?



If what you said you did is what you did, although it seems your story keeps changing, then no, it is not dishonest.

But UPS believes that you sheeted a business as NI1 at 4PM when there were people there to accept the package. They believe that you did not even make an attempt.

And why are you sheeting a business as NI1 instead of CLO1? Maybe some of the issues with your methods.



Actually depends on the GPS coordinates of the scan. If you were truly at the guard shack, and the cosignee told you she leaves at 3:30PM and to bring it back the next day if you find it, then no.

I still have a feeling we're not getting the whole story.



Depends on what the consignee told UPS, what the guard told UPS and the coordinates of the scan.

If this business has cameras, would they show your truck there at 4PM?

Story does not keep changing, poor word choice maybe. I did not go inside the guard shack, but I was AT the guard shack.

I didn’t sheet it up as closed bc that would have been dishonest. They have a second and third shift. So saying it’s closed would be lying bc they aren’t. At least with NI1 I’d be saying the receiver isn’t there. The guard shack won’t let anyone by the gate unless someone is at receiving to accept the package. I didn’t go in the guard shack bc I knew the receiver leaves at 3:30 and I got there after 4:00. I was on the company’s property near the guard shack when I sheeted the package up, but never actually stepped foot into the shack. What’s the point when I know the answer already?

That’s why I said what I did about pickups calling and saying they don’t have anything today. Why go into a pickup location when you know they don’t have anything? My building is big on off area stop completes as dishonest.

 

[Mugarolla]

Story does not keep changing, poor word choice maybe.

I can buy that.

I didn’t sheet it up as closed bc that would have been dishonest.

So, you realize that sheeting it as CLO1 would have been dishonest, so you sheeted it as a NI1 so as not to be dishonest?

At least with NI1 I’d be saying the receiver isn’t there.

Do you know that for a fact. Maybe she stayed late that day for one reason or another.

The guard shack won’t let anyone by the gate unless someone is at receiving to accept the package.

Did you check with the guard?

If he would not let you through because there was no one to sign for the package, then it is CLO1 and you would still be working right now.

I didn’t go in the guard shack bc I knew the receiver leaves at 3:30 and I got there after 4:00.

Again, how do you know that no one was there? Did the guard tell you that?

I was on the company’s property near the guard shack when I sheeted the package up, but never actually stepped foot into the shack.

So, you went to their parking lot and just sheeted it as NI1 without checking with the guard or trying to get to the dock?

What’s the point when I know the answer already?

The point is that you are terminated at the moment. If you went to the trouble to go all the way back to the business to sheet it, checking with the guard would have saved your job.

That’s why I said what I did about pickups calling and saying they don’t have anything today.

OK. If you called the consignee while you were by the guard shack and she told you there was no one there to sign for the package, you would still be working right now.

There is a big difference. Quit trying to equate the two.

Why go into a pickup location when you know they don’t have anything?

You don't have to. Problem is, you did not know that there was no one in the business to sign for the package. You were by the guard shack. How long would it have taken you to ask him?

You did not call the consignee nor check with the guard.

My building is big on off area stop completes as dishonest.

As is the entire country.

Whether we agree with the methods or not, it is not an option for us not to follow the methods.

You took the time to go all the way back to the business but wouldn't walk in and ask the guard?

Cases like this are hard to defend. You basically have to ask for mercy, and you do not seem to think what you did may cost you your job.

 

[Box Ox]

The guard shack won’t let anyone by the gate unless someone is at receiving to accept the package.

Sheet CL1 with added shorthand remark, “Stpd Gd Shck” or “Rcv Closed” and keep rolling if you talked to somebody.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I didnt read the entire thread, but the proper thing to do is message the center. Especially if you know that management is gunning for your job. The OMS' s may find me a pain in the butt for it but CYA. If you cant make a delivery at a delivery point, message center and ask for instructions.