FULL TIMERS still in PROGRESSION with seniority date by Aug 1st! Did you file your grievance!?!

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by BigJamesBrown, May 20, 2019.

  1. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Don't worry, you get your progression bump, and will not likely get the gwi while in progression. I think some of that language was overlooked when making the updates to the contract in negotiations. They will probably interpret it based on the intention of progression as it has always been since progression has existed.
     
  2. SweatPit

    SweatPit i won't bite

    Nope. Not untitled to the 70 cents. Our union looked into it as did I. I took pictures of the contract need to upload and circle important things.
    If you are already getting a bump in pay, say for 22.3's. Getting that $1 bump. You do not get the 70 cent raise too. Now say you went full-time and were stuck at $25 an hour you wouldn't get anything on the old contract and be stuck at your rate of pay until top scale. Now you get the yearly raise under the new contract if you are ABOVE progression. Or if you don't get anything due to where you are at in progression. You do not get 2 raises. You do not get both raises. I am referring to 22.3's. Might be different for drivers.
     
  3. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    Per the newly ratified contract because you have a seniority date before August 1st andand being a full-time employee. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO THE GWI. The fact that you are still in progression has nothing to do with your DWI, in no way shape or form. The sole purpose for filing your grievance is because you are not getting your guaranteed contracted GWI, and some of the other full-time employees with a seniority date before August 1st are getting theirs, AND YOU WANT TO BE MADE WHOLE!
     
  4. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    Section c is really clad iron proof that everything I'm telling you is true! Section c is for employees entering a full-time position AFTER AUGUST 1ST AFTER AUGUST 1ST AFTER AUGUST 1ST AFTER AUGUST 1ST. Section c does not pertain to full-time employees with an seniority date before August 1st. PLEASE FILE A GRIEVANCE[​IMG] :2guns:
     

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  5. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    Before it was ratified I thought I understood the wages in this cba but now with real world scenarios happening the more I read it the more confusing it gets.or maybe it's just me.
     
  6. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    Who was in charge of making the contract updates DAFFY DUCK!?! No one gets to put in a $5 raise over the length of the contract and then tell me it's an oversight. Oh we're so sorry you won't be getting that $5 raise over the length of the newly ratified contract:censored2:! In my opinion they would have to throw this whole contract out and start over again... When you look at article 41 everything that tells you that you get a DWI and progression bump is in there no, not only is it in there it's repeat it and confirmed. To then go back and say that's not the intention of the contract is nothing more than fraud. Maybe these guys made a mistake or maybe they didn't but the language was left in there and there's no way to take it out at this point in time.
     
  7. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    It's only confusing because people within the organization do not understand what they are reading, or they have been told one thing or another. I'm going to put this as plain and as simple as I possibly can. If your gwi is not voided out with the language in section 2 a,b, or c (and it is not) then you (A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE WITH A SENIORITY DATE BEFORE AUGUST 1ST) are contracted to get a gwi while still in progression. You will find that section 2 A B and C only refer to employees entering a full-time position with a seniority date after August 1st, THAT'S THE KEY!!! THE LANGUAGE IN SECTION 2 TELLS YOU EXACTLY WHO SECTION 2 IS TALKING about. Whatever employees are mentioned in section 2 are in fact voided from getting the gwi mentioned in article 41. Out of all the employees mentioned and section 2oh, you will find that full-time employees with a seniority date before August 1st is never mentioned, FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES WITH A SENIORITY DATE BEFORE AUGUST 1ST IS NEVER MENTIONED AND SECTION 2.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  8. I don't think there are yearly raises on your hire date every year everybody just gets a raise on August 1st of every year until this contract expires then who knows
     
  9. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    If your job description is not mentioned in section 2 then you are entitled to the gwi mentioned an article 41.
     
  10. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    The hire date only matters for those that are still in progression, but yes everyone gets the General wage increase every August, even the guys still in progression with a seniority date before August 1st.
     
  11. So does that mean that since my seniority date is March 19 I'll get two yearly raises?
     
  12. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    According to article 41, yes, if you are still in progression. You get your progression on March 19th, and then you get your gwi on August 1st. The only guys that don't get the contracted gwi are employees that are moving into a full-time position after August Aug. Read article 41 section 2a,b, and c. Again section 2 says who's not getting the gwi and you won't find FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES WITH A SENIORITY DATE BEFORE AUGUST 1ST in that section. Section 2 is not talkin about full-time employees with a seniority date before August 1st, the language in section 2 is language for all other employees , not full-time employees with a seniority date before August 1st...
     
  13. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    Might not be too far off.

    Drivers in progression are already getting a $3+ per hour bump per year, and will go to the top scale that is current at the time they complete progression. Drivers in progression are getting a much larger raise than $5 over the course of this contract.

    The contract states that people still in progression will make no less than the progression rates. Those rates satisfy the annual GWI. The contract does not specifically state that the GWI is in addition to the progression rate, nor does it say it compounds. It does not say specifically when the raises are to be paid, that language was taken out. So as long as everyone gets at least the agreed upon increase for GWI every year, the terms for the contract have not been breeched.

    Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, for your sake, but I can't say I will feel too bad if I'm right. You guys will be making significantly more in progression than those of us who recently made it through progression.
     
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  14. BigJamesBrown

    BigJamesBrown Member

    I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you simply do not understand what you are reading. Why then would it make a difference if the seniority date was before August 1st versus seniority date after August 1st? Both seniority date before and after August 1st still get the progression, so tell me what the difference or the significance of having seniority before or after August 1st if what you are saying is true? You have to understand sentence structure and subject matter. Article 41 is talking about full-time employees with a seniority date of August 1st. Section 2 subject matter is talking about employees entering a full-time position with seniority date after August 1st. Read section 2 and tell me if they are talking about full-time employees with a seniority date before August 1st...
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  15. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    I don't know all the precedent, or have all the answers. Clearly the language is confusing, and all unclear language should be challenged. I'm not saying you shouldn't grieve it, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate.

    I will try, however, to answer your question the best I can based on the language. The difference between people in progression as of the beginning of the contract (prior to August 1st) and those who start progression on or after August 1st is which progression they are in. Prior to August 1st you were in the progression as outlined in the old contract.

    The language in section 1 about full time employees already in progression receiving the above contractual increases is the only thing that establishes that you got an increase as of August 1st, without it you would have to wait until your next anniversary date to bump up to the next progression rate.

    You get the contractual increase as of the start of the new contract, but the next line says you will be paid no less than what you are entitled to according to section 2 below. The language in 2c was chaged specifically to state that employees in progression under the last agreement will be slotted into the new progression. Thus your increase brings you up to the rate you are entitled to under the new progression.

    This language had to be changed from the last contract because, in the last contract, progression went from 3 to 4 years. The last contract had language protecting people in the 3 year progression from being bumped up to a 4 year progression. Since the progression schedule has not changed, just the rates, that language had to be changed.

    Once again, the contract does not specifically state a date that the increases must take place, simply that the increases must take place each year. While in progression, the only time August 1st means anything is this year. After that, as long as you get an annual increase, and it is no less than what you are entitled to under section 2 and is at least as much as outlined in section 1, there is no contractual breech.


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    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  16. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    On a side note: Since the new contract doesn't specify when the raises go into effect, UPS would be within the terms of the contract to make the increases effective December 31st of each year.
     
  17. Whatbrownwontdoforyou

    Whatbrownwontdoforyou Well-Known Member

    You are wrong here and your grievance won’t be paid......you will get no less than you are entitled to in section 2.....your ba should have been honest with you.....the language is clear in art 41
     
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  18. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt



    What ?


    You mean to tell me.... UPS hasn't been taking advantage of this contractual

    loophole for all these years ?


    ARTICLE 41. FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES

    Section 1. Full-time Wage Increases

    "All full-time employees who have attained seniority as of August 1, 2018 will receive the following general wage increases for each contract year."


    August 1, 2018 - July 31, 2019.... is a "contractual" year and the raises are paid

    at the beginning of the period. Just as when there were split raises, they were paid

    at the beginning of the period which was February 1st.
     
  19. zubenelgenubi

    zubenelgenubi Well-Known Member

    If you look at the 2013-2018 contract, it spelled out when the raises were given. That language was taken out. If both parties agree that the raises are to be paid at the beginning of the contract year, or if the precedent is set, great. The language doesn't specify that, and I was talking only about the language.

    Also, if the date were specified in section 1 there would be some support for full timers in progression getting some sort of increase on August 1st as well as their seniority date each year.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  20. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    Employees in progession will not get gwi.