Ground taking over

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
At this point, it’s all semantics. FedEx has played the long game on this and waited for the correct political climate.

Anyone who thinks losing RLA status will happen in the near future, why do you think so? As IWBF has pointed out, Express has used third party vendors for decades. Ground is incorporated as a separate entity. Business between sister companies is not illegal. FedEx has built all the evidence it needs through business relationships over the years to support this argument.

Furthermore, I suspect that if FedEx were to lose a legal challenge, they wouldn’t really care. Experience with Freight (and watching Amazon) has shown them that they can crush any organizing attempt.

Anyone see Washington riding to worker’s rescue?
I respectfully disagree. How do you subcontract a package to yourself? It absolutely is semantics and your comment that they have "waited for the correct political climate" says it all. Ground is not a third party considering it is one of the FDX opcos. Maybe they're pretending that it is (a third party) but that's simply not the case. This all hinges on FDX building a political support mechanism for the illegal actions they are taking.

The real issue remains the RLA, and I'm still failing to understand how FDX gets to keep Express under the RLA when the way it moves packages has fundamentally changed. Express is no longer an airline in terms of the RLA definition of such. Yes, there is an airline component of Express, but you cannot call the new hybrid Ground/Express model an airline with a straight face, which is exactly what they're trying to do.

On one hand, you have Raj telling us that the "silos" are no longer separate, and that very separation was the last tenuous fiber holding together the argument that Express is a true airline and should remain RLA. I fully agree that there is nobody jumping forward as a White Knight to come to the defense of workers. Rather, this is an issue that will be played out in the courts over a long period of time. Watch and wait.

I'm not sure what you mean by "building evidence". If your definition is that FDX deserves to do whatever they want and flaunt the law(s), I'd have to disagree strongly. Rather than building evidence, my take is that they've gradually gotten away with more and more by incrementally building-up the hybrid model over time, creating infrastructure while simultaneously pushing the limits and paying-off the right people to ensure a lack of political and legislative pushback. That will come from UPS, and I would expect them to eventually prevail in court or in front of the NLB.

Most people here seem to diminish the whole RLA deal and that begs the question. Why is Express so focused on maintaining it if it's so irrelevant? They have literally thrown tens of millions of dollars at it through PACs, lobbyists etc. Employees obviously would NEVER vote for a union given the excellent treatment they receive, right? The pilots don't care because they're already ALPA. The answer is that FDX is fully devoted to being anti-union, and dealing with unions in the most antediluvian methodology possible. They have created an entire business model to kill any pretense of unions, and it extends to all the opcos.

If you work for Express and try to organize, you're gone. The same with Freight. The pilots were able to do it only because they're a relatively small work group, have limited domiciles, and a highly sought after skill set. Plus, the vast majority are educated, and smart enough to protect themselves from a predatory employer.

And, actually, that is a fitting final comment to this post. FDX is a predatory employer, one that breaks the law(s) at will, and ensures that employees who dare to question it's employment practices are dealt with harshly and most likely, terminated. What's going on now is the highest form of predation, and it is harming the welfare of not only employees, but the customer base as well. I guess they should just always be allowed to do business according to their own rules. No.
 
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Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
Ummm, everything I said is true. So apparently you fell for the gas lighting that the climate is totally different than when you were a kid. Mission accomplished for you. And the diversity and inclusion is a lie? Every company is pushing that. FedEx has a big sign where I'm at that even says "diversity and inclusion" but I guess I'm imagining that. And the LGBTQ stuff is a lie? All you have to do is look at the various "right wing" news stories that talks about this city and that city having drag queen stripper shows. You think it's all false because you watch to the uni-media where all that stuff is censored off their broadcasts. But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong. You said all three of my points were false and lies, so you go ahead an explain to me how each point is a lie as in not happening, not real, totally made up. Please explain.
Anyone who disputes a statement, but gives no verifiable rebuttal, is best dismissed as a bigot..
 

AB831

Well-Known Member
Ummm, everything I said is true. So apparently you fell for the gas lighting that the climate is totally different than when you were a kid. Mission accomplished for you. And the diversity and inclusion is a lie? Every company is pushing that. FedEx has a big sign where I'm at that even says "diversity and inclusion" but I guess I'm imagining that. And the LGBTQ stuff is a lie? All you have to do is look at the various "right wing" news stories that talks about this city and that city having drag queen stripper shows. You think it's all false because you watch to the uni-media where all that stuff is censored off their broadcasts. But I'll give you a chance to prove me wrong. You said all three of my points were false and lies, so you go ahead an explain to me how each point is a lie as in not happening, not real, totally made up. Please explain.
1) climate change is real
2) diversity is a bad thing how?
3) I’m not a bigot against LGBTQ people, so I don’t oppose their rights
4) if you don’t like a drag show, don’t go to one.

You didn’t give any valid points. You just spewed misinformation and personal bigotry.
 

yadig

Well-Known Member
1) climate has and will always change.
2) diversity should encompass all races and religions. The cream should rise to the top.
3) I don’t care what goes on in someone else’s bedroom.
4) I don’t think men wearing panties and a bra making sexual gestures should be shown in kindergartens!
 

Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
1) climate change is real
2) diversity is a bad thing how?
3) I’m not a bigot against LGBTQ people, so I don’t oppose their rights
4) if you don’t like a drag show, don’t go to one.

You didn’t give any valid points. You just spewed misinformation and personal bigotry.
1) 31,000 scientists say "no convincing evidence". — OSS Foundation

2) Diversity in the workplace: Positive and negative impacts on performance outcomes | Emerald Insight.

3) ✂️ Who are the real bigots?

4) A School Took Middle Schoolers to a Drag Show Without Telling Their Parents
 

fedx

Extra Large Package
1) climate change is real
2) diversity is a bad thing how?
3) I’m not a bigot against LGBTQ people, so I don’t oppose their rights
4) if you don’t like a drag show, don’t go to one.

You didn’t give any valid points. You just spewed misinformation and personal bigotry.

So basically it's all just your opinion. I pointed out facts to back up what I said and all you can say is "weather real", "diversity good", "drag shows for toddlers good". Diversity is a good thing when it occurs naturally, not artificially and controlled. That's all I'm saying. Also what you gave was your opinion, but your opinion is disinformation. You're deliberately spewing your opinion and saying I'm lying with nothing to back up that what I said isn't true. Oh and I'm a "bigot" because I don't think toddlers should watch men strip in front of them. There is no "right" to dress up like a woman and strip off your clothes in a sexual manner in front of children. Your warped opinion of bigotry shows how far this country is going down the toilet.
 
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FedUpRTD

Well-Known Member
Plan to move to Ground is on massive training of RTD s rumor is that Express will also run Ground trailers, take all the couriers who want it, when Ground is staffed enough in a location start moving packages to Ground than close the Express stations. Th
There have been lots of RTD trainees at our ramp lately. Usually, the training classes consist of trainees from other markets as well as ours. We definitely don't need any new RTD's with the cancellation of RESPONSE, so it is anyone's guess what they are going to do with them.
 

Gone fishin

Well-Known Member
Plan to move to Ground is on massive training of RTD s rumor is that Express will also run Ground trailers, take all the couriers who want it, when Ground is staffed enough in a location start moving packages to Ground than close the Express stations. Th
Right , because ground is always well staffed. Lol
 

yadig

Well-Known Member
There have been lots of RTD trainees at our ramp lately. Usually, the training classes consist of trainees from other markets as well as ours. We definitely don't need any new RTD's with the cancellation of RESPONSE, so it is anyone's guess what they are going to do with them.
That’s the big question at our ramp. We’re told we are 10-12 rtd’s short and we have some in training or waiting to be trained.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
That’s the big question at our ramp. We’re told we are 10-12 rtd’s short and we have some in training or waiting to be trained.
Heard word regarding a new Fedex ad slogan when Ground takes over.....Fedex current slogan....."The world on time"

The new one when Ground takes over....."Maybe the world on time but the rest of the planet when we get there".
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
They are merging operations, which is different than actually merging the companies, which would open a new can of worms. You keep talking about "subbing out" work to Ground like it's all just fine and dandy to do so with no consequences, especially on labor issues. If it were an entirely separate Third party like UPS or USPS there isn't any issue. But Ground is another FedEx opco, and it isn't a separate entity from FDX, the systems integrator that oversees all the opcos.

Given your reasoning, I guess UPS can now create UPS Tan, and duplicate the FedEx Ground model, right? Then UPS Brown and Air can bleed-off however much air and ground they want to the new Tan, which will be "independent" contractors with their own employees. The trucks will look the same, and, in fact, Tan can deliver NDA, UPS traditional Brown ground and whatever the UPS Corporation decides to send their way.

I'm guessing you don't see a problem.
Ground doesn’t actually deliver packages. They sort packages and provide tracking information. Express handing off deliveries to what is basically a freight broker doesn’t change what type of company Express is. Plenty of air cargo companies broker out their final mile operations.

The argument you guys are making is nonsensical. Express focusing on and only handling freight that needs to fly, or require express handling, doesn’t make it less of an airline. It makes it more so.
 

HD219

Well-Known Member
Ground will absorb all of Express. FedEx will then cut down the amount of contractors operating in each building until they eventually have 4-5 contractors left per building. Fedex will then terminate the remaining contractors loosely bound legal contracts. Thus eliminating the contractor model. All employees will work directly for Fedex. Fedex will then implode the company so bad that they go out of business.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Ground will absorb all of Express. FedEx will then cut down the amount of contractors operating in each building until they eventually have 4-5 contractors left per building. Fedex will then terminate the remaining contractors loosely bound legal contracts. Thus eliminating the contractor model. All employees will work directly for Fedex. Fedex will then implode the company so bad that they go out of business.
Put down the bong. Why would they move everything to Ground to then eliminate the contractor model?
 

MAKAVELI

Well-Known Member
Ground doesn’t actually deliver packages. They sort packages and provide tracking information. Express handing off deliveries to what is basically a freight broker doesn’t change what type of company Express is. Plenty of air cargo companies broker out their final mile operations.

The argument you guys are making is nonsensical. Express focusing on and only handling freight that needs to fly, or require express handling, doesn’t make it less of an airline. It makes it more so.
Express isn't handing off pkgs to a freight broker. FedEx Corp is diverting Freight that "is flown on planes" to Ground. Consolidating operations of both OPCOs to work together is merging whether you want to play semantics or not. Express will no longer be an independent Express only operation thus making its RLA status not applicable.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Ground will absorb all of Express. FedEx will then cut down the amount of contractors operating in each building until they eventually have 4-5 contractors left per building. Fedex will then terminate the remaining contractors loosely bound legal contracts. Thus eliminating the contractor model. All employees will work directly for Fedex. Fedex will then implode the company so bad that they go out of business.
I wouldn't rule out a single contractor taking over ownership or the lease on final mile terminal in addition to owning the linehaul operations that service that terminal and they will also haul under their own DOT number. And of course...a 1 year contract,
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
Because the contractor model doesn't work for a merge of Express and Ground.
If for no other than for the fact that Ground has become uninvestable. Contractors continue to be required to more and more money at risk in the face of a looming recession and for a contract that provides that investment with zero protection. Even more so when you can easily pickup a short term CD paying 5% with none of the risk or hassle.
 

MassWineGuy

Well-Known Member
Definitely true I work at CKVA had a meeting the other week with the senior to tell us we were moving to a new building. A week later they told us 10 full time couriers will be cut at the end of May when we move and ground takes a large piece of our freight.

Are they out and out laying off these couriers?
 

Lates

Well-Known Member
Are they out and out laying off these couriers?
They won’t use that word even if pressed on it. They say 90 days to find another position my guess is that is a tactic to keep people from filing unemployment cause they could say technically you aren’t unemployed even after you are let go. But most aren’t going to want to take a swing position an hour away. They also said it’s a third for now which is 10ish employees but also said they hope to get the number down to four which makes no sense. They also wouldn’t commit to telling us if this would happen at the locations they want people to transfer to.
 
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