beentheredonethat

Well-Known Member

barnyard

KTM rider
Staff member
Important to note that UPS freight is unionized with a lower scale than package and Cartage is not organized at all and the pay is the same is many of the worst gypsy carriers.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
In my area we hire feeder drivers off the road by a ratio of 2 from package 2 from feeder transfer and 1 off the road. When I finally decided to go to Feeders I had 25 years in package. As it worked out the next guy ahead of me on the feeder seniority list had 1 month with the company. I get vacation pick and layoff protection over him but he gets job pick, overtime pick and everything else.
Well, where I'm at, that doesn't happen. Here, your 25 years of seniority dovetails right into the feeder list. You have 35 full-time years and are treated as such. I'm sorry it works that way in your area, because that's a bunch of BS and whoever agreed to that should have their fingernails removed. I mean, what is the purpose of seniority if you have to start over in feeders? In my building, the street hires bitch and moan about how they get bumped back down the list every time a new school finishes. And we tell them ,hey, if you don't like it, you should have been here for all of the years we toiled through package car. We earned that seniority.

I'm curious what area you are in.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Well, where I'm at, that doesn't happen. Here, your 25 years of seniority dovetails right into the feeder list. You have 35 full-time years and are treated as such. I'm sorry it works that way in your area, because that's a bunch of BS and whoever agreed to that should have their fingernails removed. I mean, what is the purpose of seniority if you have to start over in feeders? In my building, the street hires bitch and moan about how they get bumped back down the list every time a new school finishes. And we tell them ,hey, if you don't like it, you should have been here for all of the years we toiled through package car. We earned that seniority.

I'm curious what area you are in.
Going full time into package car can a part timers with 10 years in jump over a full time driver that only has 8 years in?
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
What worries me is that our union hasn't told us any of these details that have come out from the TDU. Why are they holding info back from us? Don't they think you might want to know some of these details? If we find out at the last minute what UPS is offering, then we have less time to fight back and our union gets more past us. I have never liked Hoffa, and this is a good reason why. It is just bad faith bargaining, on behalf of those you are bargaining for, to keep us in the dark. I checked the Teamster web site last night and there is nothing--NOTHING--about UPS's proposals regarding this or the increase in retiree health care monthly costs. Just some vague blurbs about 9.5 and harassment language. And we heard that crap before the last contract and UPS flipped us over the barrel on that.

Bottom line: if we--OUR UNION--let UPS dovetail small package work into UPSF and subcontractors, outside the period during peak, we're screwed. We shouldn't allow it then, if you ask me, but it's too late now, isn't it sooner or later, we have to start drawing some lines in the sand and standing up to them.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Going full time into package car can a part timers with 10 years in jump over a full time driver that only has 8 years in?
Not in my area. That is the line. Part-time/full-time. A part-timer going into PC would carry his time for vacations (the amount of weeks he/she gets) and layoff rights, but his full time date starts his full time seniority.
 

kingOFchester

Well-Known Member
Not in my area. That is the line. Part-time/full-time. A part-timer going into PC would carry his time for vacations (the amount of weeks he/she gets) and layoff rights, but his full time date starts his full time seniority.
But doesn't that go against your stance "I mean, what is the purpose of seniority if you have to start over in feeders?"

If a driver puts off going to feeders for 20 years, and a junior driver decides to make the leap to feeders shouldn't he be rewarded just as the part timer who makes the leap to full time before some other part timer who waited to make the leap? I can't see how the two differ?


 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Different people have different reasons for going or not going to feeders. Some are intimidated, some still want to smoke dope, some want regular hours. Where I'm from, the dividing line has always been between part time and full time. But to your point, it wouldn't bother me much if long time PT's came back and carried their seniority. It would all even out over time. There is only so many high seniority PT's. If you're back there for that long, chances are you aren't ever going driving. But seniority is something that is earned and should be respected and have it's merits.
 

QKRSTKR

Well-Known Member
. It's mostly these guys who hire in off the street and have 2 yrs seniority , want to act like they have 20, that have problems with pkg drivers coming over with seniority. I started with the company when I was 18. I GAVE UP my seniority once when I went full time. I sure in the hell shouldn't have to do it again.
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
That HAD to happen. Yellow was bleeding money to the point it looked like they would be bankrupt with an asset sale. One of the only ways to save the company was to combine operations. I have not checked their stock price lately, when I was in feeder school, my trainer had their stock on his home page, as his dad had quite a bit of stock as a retiree. At that time, it was trading below $1 a share and was approaching junk status. The fact that the company is still in business is a testament to management's commitment to keeping the company running.

In my area, they are adding drivers. Not many union LTL companies left and it is good to see them being relatively successful. LTL competition is fierce.
That may be true. Look, nowhere did I say I didn't agree with what they're doing. Yes, they're trying to keep the company afloat.

Here, there was alot of anger and hatred for each other that may or may not go away, I don't know.

I MERELY stated that Yellow said this was NEVER gonna happen and it did, that's all, for reasons that were economical, logical, sensible and/or reasonable.

UPS has stated the same thing, THE SAME THING! Whether it's wrong or right from a business standpoint is not for me to say. I am MERELY saying that UPS said the same thing and I get real tired of small/medium/large/huge corporations reniging on their "word". BUT, I guess that's America.
 

happybob

Feeders
Our work rules were negotiated in 2000 and 'fixed' in 2009 but the classification seniority process has never been an issue. I guess it's a matter of your perspective but to me, just going by Company Seniority for classification presents all sorts of problems. A couple of scenarios:

Employee A works P/T for 3 years until eligible for Package, qualifies, and works 17 years in Package working his way to a nice route.
Employee B has one month seniority on Employee A, but stays in P/T working his way to the cushiest of Hub jobs: parking cars, damages, you name it. He decides to go driving and bumps Employee A.

One year later, Employee B has earned one year of Safe Driving and bumps into Feeders, displacing other 20 year drivers from day runs back to nights.

No one is being denied their option to exercise their seniority by our process. When you are eligible to drive, you can exercise your seniority. If you don't you are end-tailed when you do. Everyone can sign up on the Feeder list by Seniority every year, and if their turn comes up that's the time they can guarantee they will go into Feeders at their guaranteed position by Company Seniority. Delay that decision and you are end-tailed. We paid our dues in the Hub to get to Package, and pay them in Package to get to Feeders. Feeders is like working for a whole different UPS so it's appropriate to pay your dues to get the best opportunities there.

If we were to change how we do this, you would see the most movement in the bottom 2/3's which is where the transition from Nights to Days is most present and a lot of the shifting work would go to guys who've been in Feeders more than 6 years.
I think we're happy with the way we do things.
Every Supplement is differant. New England Supplement is you get a new seniority date when you become fulltime from the parttime ranks. Your vacation eligibility is by hire date. You get hired as a parttime employee you get a parttime seniority date and a hire/eployment date for vacation eligibility. When you go fulltime you get a fulltime seniority date but get to keep your hire date for vacation eligibility. Your fulltime date is used in all fulltime jobs, package, feeder and I believe 22.3. You get your allotment of vacation(weeks) based on your hire date. When you're ready to go into feeders you use your fulltime seniority date to slot where your date takes you, including bumping a 20 year feeder driver if your seniority date is before his/hers. To think the company hired someone off the street to driver feeders, maybe a year or two ago, and I toiled for 20 years as a package car driver and I can't bump him/her is crazy.
 

pretender

Well-Known Member
. It's mostly these guys who hire in off the street and have 2 yrs seniority , want to act like they have 20, that have problems with pkg drivers coming over with seniority. I started with the company when I was 18. I GAVE UP my seniority once when I went full time. I sure in the hell shouldn't have to do it again.
So true!
 

feeder

Central Pa Member
Here is my story about this senority issue and about how I got into feeders... My story starts 28 years ago when I started as a part time loader, part time belt puller, part time unloader, part time primary sorter, part time irregg train driver, part time small sorter, did some part time preloading, part time air driver, 5 yrs. being a part time pkg cover driver. obtained Full Time status because i was the highest part time cover driver over 30 other cover drivers, As a fulltimer pkg driver with No Bid Route, covered for 2 years until a bid route was available. After 12 years of pkg driving, Feeders put up a "interest sheet". Feeders only wanted 1 person, I was the highest in senority over 20 people who signed it. I went to Feeder school, passed all the tests. I was put on the Q-List, "Feeder Qualification List", Meaning, a 2yr commitment covering Vacations in Feeders but still have a pkg car bid. After a 1 yr and 8 months, a feeder bid comes up, and I cant sign it because i am not a "Real Feeder driver". Nobody signs the Feeder bid, Now the feeder manager assigns it to the highest Feeder Q-list driver, which was turned down by everyone above me, since nobody wanted to be commited to nights. Since I was the lowest Q-list driver, I was the assigned the "Feeder Bid", (which I happily accepted) At that time, I had 16 yrs fulltime senority. After the next 6 monthly bid, I was able to bump into a better Feeder Job, since I had the senority....It would of been an insult on me if I was placed at the bottom of the senority list, especially, under feeder street hires. So when these street hires whine about getting bumped by people like me, I tell them, my story with UPS. They just shut up and walk away.
 
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drewcarr1

New Member
Our work rules were negotiated in 2000 and 'fixed' in 2009 but the classification seniority process has never been an issue. I guess it's a matter of your perspective but to me, just going by Company Seniority for classification presents all sorts of problems. A couple of scenarios:

Employee A works P/T for 3 years until eligible for Package, qualifies, and works 17 years in Package working his way to a nice route.
Employee B has one month seniority on Employee A, but stays in P/T working his way to the cushiest of Hub jobs: parking cars, damages, you name it. He decides to go driving and bumps Employee A.

One year later, Employee B has earned one year of Safe Driving and bumps into Feeders, displacing other 20 year drivers from day runs back to nights.

No one is being denied their option to exercise their seniority by our process. When you are eligible to drive, you can exercise your seniority. If you don't you are end-tailed when you do. Everyone can sign up on the Feeder list by Seniority every year, and if their turn comes up that's the time they can guarantee they will go into Feeders at their guaranteed position by Company Seniority. Delay that decision and you are end-tailed. We paid our dues in the Hub to get to Package, and pay them in Package to get to Feeders. Feeders is like working for a whole different UPS so it's appropriate to pay your dues to get the best opportunities there.

If we were to change how we do this, you would see the most movement in the bottom 2/3's which is where the transition from Nights to Days is most present and a lot of the shifting work would go to guys who've been in Feeders more than 6 years.
I think we're happy with the way we do things.
What are the chances of getting on permantly as a feeder driver if you are hired off the street...Drew in Chicago
 
What are the chances of getting on permantly as a feeder driver if you are hired off the street...Drew in Chicago
In local 705 slim to none. In 710, the peak hiring wave has come and gone and odds are any openings will be filled by the Xmas temp hires they now are familiar with. Still it's worth a shot with both as word is its difficult to find internal employees that will move into feeder.
 

MassWineGuy

Well-Known Member
I've heard that feeder driver earns a lot more than package car drivers. Also, that the job is so sought after that the only way a spot opens is if someone dies. Any truth to these? And by the way, I have great respect and admiration for the abilities of you feeder drivers.
 
I've heard that feeder driver earns a lot more than package car drivers. Also, that the job is so sought after that the only way a spot opens is if someone dies. Any truth to these? And by the way, I have great respect and admiration for the abilities of you feeder drivers.
Dave is correct on the pay depending on region. Some pay the same.

As far as going feeder it also depends on the region. Some take forever. I caught the wave and made feeder barely 9 years after starting with UPS. As far as being worth it that's personal opinion. It doesn't fit some lifestyles, the suave single playboy like Dave for instance, but for others it's the salvation to a long career at UPS.
It's the package guys I'm having the respect/sympathy for. All the leashes and work they have on them now. They're screwed. I would quit before going back.
 
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