When does the negotiations get to the economics/pay?

[35years]

I think maybe the thought is that they will stick around if wages improved. I'm sure many of the old-timers would have gone somewhere else if wages were substandard whne they started.

My starting OT wage was $.50 higher than another sorter who had started 8 years before me. That's why the quality of the part-time employees has dropped considerably.

Why is having them stick around a Union issue?
The company may very well have to increase the starting pay to attract workers.
They are already doing it in many places.
But the long term employees gain nothing from a higher stating wage.
I would like to see part timers, and full timers, WHO STAY get faster and larger wage increases.

Starting pay increases are a bargaining chip the union should not be paying for in other areas, since UPS has to do it anyway. And it does nothing for long term, seniority employees. Most of these people (85%) will not even be working at UPS one year later.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

My starting OT wage was $.50 higher than another sorter who had started 8 years before me. That's why the quality of the part-time employees has dropped considerably.

Nope. You could give some of these kids $30/hr and they would still suck.

 

[PT Stewie]

Remember the union is in business too......$250.00 a pop initiation fees favors a high turnover of new employees

 

[PT Car Washer]

Nope. You could give some of these kids $30/hr and they would still suck.

True, but they could be replaced more quickly. Now the company has to keep everyone that walks through the door.

 

[Karma...]

the new hire situation is simple...you get what you pay for...college students want money in their pocket ..their medical benefits are covered up to age 25/26 by their parents as long as they are in school......if ups was smart it would negotiate a deal with the teamsters....20 bucks to start with no benefits and no benefits paid by ups into the health and welfare.......at some yet to be determined point if and when the person is still around then the money goes into the health and welfare and the person gets benefits.........i dont ever see that happening....the high turnover of parttimers have always funded the pay and benefits of fulltimers.....it will be " same as it always was "....and the teamsters will be estatic with raises (?) that are below the cost of inflation meaning annual pay cuts.....these combo jobs are self destructive...less turnover...less initiation fees...less monthly dues....more paying out of benefits.......hardly sensible....again...you ger what you pay for......

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Guess I grew up in a different time. When I started you made top rate after 90 days and had full benefits both PT and FT.

We both started around the same time.

Things were different.... no cell phones, no home computers, no internet, and if

you wanted to play "video" games, you went to the arcade at the local mall.

When did this "delayed gratification" crock start?

It was a metaphoric term.

But, I would say in 1982 with the advent of the 2-tier wages.

(can't blame that on Hoffa)

You could give some of these kids $30/hr and they would still suck.

It's a generation that has never had a work ethic instilled in them.

Remember the union is in business too......$250.00 a pop initiation fees favors a high turnover of new employees

A Local has to pay the bills somehow.

True, but they could be replaced more quickly. Now the company has to keep everyone that walks through the door.

There is a reason the company is installing automation at the larger Hubs.


You'll remember this;

UPS has always bragged about developing a business plan that looked 10 years

into the future. I don't think that has changed. Sure, with the advent of

E-commerce UPS is lagging.... isn't everyone ?



-Bug-

 

[BrownFlush]

It's a generation that has never had a work ethic instilled in them.
-Bug-

You can blame your generation for that.

 

[1989]

You can blame your generation for that.

Public schools

 

[BrownFlush]

Public schools

Sorry.
Schools aren't responsible for instilling work ethic, morals, or common sense .
It all falls on parents.

 

[BrownFlush]

You can blame your generation for that.

I should say "our " generation.
I'm older than you, but not much. All 3 of my kids are millennials.

 

[Moneythehardway]

You can blame your generation for that.

 

[PT Car Washer]

But, I would say in 1982 with the advent of the 2-tier wages.

In 1982, $8/hr and benefits was good for a PT job. In 2018, $10/hr and no benefits is a throw away job. Meaning I will work there until I find something better.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Nope. You could give some of these kids $30/hr and they would still suck.

Dude, it's a shame how you demean people. There's drivers who get $36.29 who "suck" at their job too. One got fired here for stealing but not packages.

Lack of parenting, single parent homes where dad or mom abandoned kids, low self esteem due to rejection and abuses of other kinds leads to drug addiction and poor work ethics.

We should never judge another person because you never know what they've been through.
Lead by example. We don't write the checks dude. You act like you do.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

We both started around the same time.

Things were different.... no cell phones, no home computers, no internet, and if

you wanted to play "video" games, you went to the arcade at the local mall.





It was a metaphoric term.

But, I would say in 1982 with the advent of the 2-tier wages.

(can't blame that on Hoffa)





It's a generation that has never had a work ethic instilled in them.





A Local has to pay the bills somehow.





There is a reason the company is installing automation at the larger Hubs.


You'll remember this;

UPS has always bragged about developing a business plan that looked 10 years

into the future. I don't think that has changed. Sure, with the advent of

E-commerce UPS is lagging.... isn't everyone ?



-Bug-

Who said anything about Hoffa?
Was it Fitzsimmons or Presser?
They were fine Teamster fellows.
And who has fought to reverse the downward spiral of that garbage?

The starting wage with zero benefits is a sham and embarrassing to tout as being "union negotiated wages".
Pathetic. Weak.

Growing up in my generation most families stayed together. Today, that's the minority group. Unstable homes are rampant. They create today's foundation for a generation of "snowflakes" (as you call them).

No work ethic? Heck, there's few parents that bother to be involved enough to weed the garden they planted.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Dude, it's a shame how you demean people. There's drivers who get $36.29 who "suck" at their job too. One got fired here for stealing but not packages.

Lack of parenting, single parent homes where dad or mom abandoned kids, low self esteem due to rejection and abuses of other kinds leads to drug addiction and poor work ethics.

We should never judge another person because you never know what they've been through.
Lead by example. We don't write the checks dude. You act like you do.

I may not write the checks but I have to deal with their less than stellar loads on a daily basis.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Sorry.
Schools aren't responsible for instilling work ethic, morals, or common sense .
It all falls on parents.

Uh no, the Prussian education models entire scope was and is doing those things, as is the U.S. compulsory education. That is why you ship the kids off to school every day, to be molded into good little obedient, deferential, conformist, nationalistic soldiers on the battle field and worker bees for the .1%.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Who said anything about Hoffa?

According to some, he's responsible for everything.

Global warming, deforestation, unsafe drinking water in Detroit, the list goes on.

Was it Fitzsimmons or Presser?
They were fine Teamster fellows.

It was Presser.

The government rat.


"I remember when the Teamsters had guts and were feared"

The common "rallying cry" of a few.

The starting wage with zero benefits is a sham and embarrassing to tout as being "union negotiated wages".

That is within the power of the company to change. (if they want)

The wages set, are the minimum.

End of story.

Growing up in my generation most families stayed together. Today, that's the minority group. Unstable homes are rampant. They create today's foundation for a generation of "snowflakes" (as you call them).

No work ethic? Heck, there's few parents that bother to be involved enough to weed the garden they planted.

Absolutely.... spot on.


My family, always had a black & white TV.



-Bug-

 

[BrownFlush]

Uh no, the Prussian education models entire scope was and is doing those things, as is the U.S. compulsory education. That is why you ship the kids off to school every day, to be molded into good little obedient, deferential, conformist, nationalistic soldiers on the battle field and worker bees for the .1%.

The Prussian education model ( which American school systems adopted )is often used as a derogatory term for the very reasons you list.
A generation ago, teachers, administration , and parents were at least close to being on the same page. Not even close now for the very reasons @Sickofit quotes in #413 & #414.
I don't care what the public system teaches or what model they use, it is still the responsibility of the parent to instill or "unteach'', so Junior doesn't grow up to be a moronic loser.

 

[BrownFlush]

I may not write the checks but I have to deal with their less than stellar loads on a daily basis.

And every day you tackle that stellar load before start time and get it lined out.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

The Prussian education model ( which American school systems adopted )is often used as a derogatory term for the very reasons you list.
A generation ago, teachers, administration , and parents were at least close to being on the same page. Not even close now for the very reasons @Sickofit quotes in #413 & #414.
I don't care what the public system teaches or what model they use, it is still the responsibility of the parent to instill or "unteach'', so Junior doesn't grow up to be a moronic loser.

We live in a selfish and individualistic society, very shallow, that's just how it is.. look at the baby boomers, most of them sold their dreams of a happy family life for a retirement fund and summer homes. Most other cultures (not all), family is close-knit and there's usually someone at home.