Contract talks

[yeldarb]

This is where I disagree. If you cut the benefits package, it is a glorified fedex job. We do deliver what it takes two of their companies to do, and we are held to a much higher standard from our company. The profits are there with our salaries as full timers which do not warrant a pay cut, but I dont think UPS will be willing to go much higher without a serious fight, which would cost us all.
We are the most expensive company to ship with, and with a 2 billion dollar profit, why not DROP the rates a little and get some of the volume back that Fed ex has taken from us since '97? We have a opportunity to put a serious hurt of Fedx, and UPS corporate doesnt seem to care. We have some huge accounts in my area that are fed ex, that UPS is unwilling to match the price on. I remember the days of delivering 90 to home depot, and RPS carried their 3 in. Now its about even with Fed ex. Why cant we match a price of a competitor, when we will be going to that stop anyways to do a delivery?

 

[Re-Raise]

But no, according to the FT on these forums, UPS should further cut PT compensation and give it to the FT.

I don't believe anyone is saying this. Why are some people trying to make it a part-time versus full-time battle?

The battle is over whether the workers helping the company to record profits deserve to be compensated. There appears to be plenty to go around. I don't feel over compensated because I know how productive UPS workers are compared to workers at other jobs

That productivity justifies our wages.

 

[uber]

You forget that your family and kids are taken care of with your health benefits !!! You will never find another place to work 3.5 hours a day and get that !!!

Also, I hope you are not lazy and have a more lucrative part time job to go to after working your daily shift !

I don't have kids or a wife. I'm 26. I do have another PT job. Thats besides the point, without us PT'ers that get shafted this company wouldn't be where it is. Reward PT'ers who have stuck this garbage out for peanuts for years.

How long did it take you to go FT?

 

[Scuderia]

I might get some flack for this. I am fine with 30 bucks an hour. My biggest fear is that UPS is going to price themselves out of the market. We are already using more rails for trailers than ever, because it is cheaper. We are having the post office deliver tons of our volume because it is cheaper....If we keep getting raises, we will only be left with irregs left to deliver, since the post office will be cheaper. We need this contract to focus on integrity and morals. Giving out warning letters because of how a driver closes a bulkhead door is ridiculous. Not honking a horn at a resi stop. Walking in front of the package car to do a delivery. Warning letters for BS is what I would like to see addressed. We are held to high integrity standards as drivers, yet most managers have NO integrity.

As long as you're getting yours who gives a **** about the other teamsters right? It's people like you who voted yes on the last contract.

 

[Catatonic]

As long as you're getting yours who gives a **** about the other teamsters right? It's people like you who voted yes on the last contract.

Some Brothers are more equal than others.

 

[uber]

Its like some of these drivers have amnesia and forgot they ever worked in the warehouse. The business model weeds out garbage workers within a couple years. Those that sacrifice their evenings/early mornings for 5+ years deserve opportunity for advancement in the company without having to wait 10-15 years for it.

I could care less about drivers pay vs. PT'ers pay. Its all about a chance to advance. I want a piece of the pie, too. I shouldn't have to wait over a decade for it.

 

[Southwestern]

I don't believe anyone is saying this. Why are some people trying to make it a part-time versus full-time battle?

The battle is over whether the workers helping the company to record profits deserve to be compensated. There appears to be plenty to go around. I don't feel over compensated because I know how productive UPS workers are compared to workers at other jobs

That productivity justifies our wages.

Is UPS Small Package Division driving its profits? Or is the profit growth coming elsewhere in the company? Given that we've been told that UPS is willing to take a LOSS on shipping accounts if it helps build a larger, more profitable relationship (re: logistics), I'd be inclined to say the answer's "elsewhere." FedEx Ground already has a large cost advantage over UPS. Its volume has rapidly grown in recent years whereas UPS's remains (largely) static. Pushing further significant wage increases on FT will only expedite this trend -- and perhaps lead to a decline in volume. Heck, shippers have long-complained about the large, annual hikes in shipping fees. We're lucky FedEx Ground matches the percentage -- just think of what they could do if they didn't... We already earn industry-leading wages. We need to think about our future, and the future of our company, in determining what's fair. Let's not turn into another (US-based) auto company or airline.

(And yes, there's several posters who've rationalized future wage hikes by implying we could sacrifice the PTers. The same mentality occurs at the union meetings.)

 

[HEFFERNAN]

I don't have kids or a wife. I'm 26. I do have another PT job. Thats besides the point, without us PT'ers that get shafted this company wouldn't be where it is. Reward PT'ers who have stuck this garbage out for peanuts for years.

How long did it take you to go FT?

95% OF ALL DRIVERS WERE WORKING PT HERE TOO

I started when I was 21 and it took me 5 1/2 years to make FT and enjoyed my PT years. When you find a GF and get married and have kids, many people will be envious of your health benefits. It is not easy to find a job that supplies what UPS offers. Everyone gets a raise twice a year so don't sound like you are in a dead end job. FT driving is very difficult and extremely frustrating at times, but is well worth the sacrifice.

 

[menotyou]

I was pt for 6 and a half years. Preload shift.

 

[klein]

Personally, I think the gap between loaders and drivers is much too high in the US.
Loaders have a starting wage of around $14/hr here, and drivers $16.

Besides, our minimum wage of $9.40 is higher then some of your loader wages.

 

[kingOFchester]

Try to make this more clear.
1 loader loading 4 cars.
1 missload per car (which in my building is a good day) equals 4 missloads.
On average the misslaod adds 2o minutes to make service on the misload,
at time and a half that adds up and will cost the company over 100$ for that loaders mistake.

 

[browniehound]

Ugh, if its anything like the last contract, all we have to look forward to is UPS doing everything they can to give us little-to-nothing, and then the teamsters negotiators agreeing to it

Well, I wouldn't call a full-time job with no threat of being laid of at $33/hour (by contract's end) and free health insurance little to nothing. Who else in the entire universe is going to pay a high school educated, no work skill person $33/hour? Right, the answer is nobody. You'd be lucky to get $15 anywhere else.

Seriously, I can't believe the negative comments about the negotiated rate for the driver job or any 22.3 job (part timers at 8.50 have a gripe). Millions of unemployed people have been starving for a job that pays what their standard of living dictates for 3-4 years now. We as UPS drivers have received raises for that entire time while the professional that made $100,000 a year cannot find a job.

Its too bad that most people are too young to remember the great depression. I am one of them but have studied the history. First, it can happen again and it can happen on a greater scale and greater breath. The last three generations have lived in a fantasy world.

Things can go really bad, really quick especially with the world population approaching 7 billion. I just don't have the feeling that people get this. Count your lucky stars for what you have now because it could change in a blink of an eye.

I'll leave it as this. Things in the past have been bad and through history conflicts and atrocities have only escalated in scope. We think world war II was hell on earth and it was. Just think, the next world conflict will make WWII look like the war of 1812.

Ya' have to live life like today is your last...

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

The sense of entitlement some of you have amazes me, especially in today's economic uncertainty. $30+/hr for a job which only requires a HS diploma and a drivers license. Some of you want more even though we continue to lose market share and the package division is no longer the economic engine of the company.

A part-time job is simply that---part time. The vast majority of part time jobs do not offer benefits and those that do offer a benefit package which pales in comparison to ours. However, most of the PTers do not take advantage of their benefits and some would prefer a higher wage in lieu of benefits. I know that if I were still in college and working at UPS part time I would prefer more money rather than benefits and would most likely not join the union, if that option were available, as the level of concern toward PTers is neglible.

I have several items that I would eiither like to see or think will be at least discussed during negotiations:

Part time employees hired on or after the date of ratification will no longer be offered health care benefits but will receive a higher starting wage. All PT employees will receive $1/hr raises each year for the duration of the contract.

New FT seniority employees as of the date of ratification will receive a lower starting wage, longer progression and lower top out rate. The company will offer a substantial signing bonus in an effort to get this two-tiered wage system approved.

Current FT employees will receive raises in line with those in the current agreement.

Healthcare for FT employees will continue to be paid by the company.

Technology will be used for discipline and production standards will be addressed.

 

[kingOFchester]

After thinking some more, I do think loaders should get a pay raise. But he held to the same standards as drivers. If the loaders didn't missload, that would save a ton of money that could go towards raises and even profit for UPS.

In my building, the loaders get away with making costly mistakes day in, day out. As a driver, if I was making the same amount of mistakes I would be out of a job.

missloading packages

missloading NDA's

Loading NDA's in load.

Putting a 75lb box on top of a 5lb box and crushing it and its contents.

Not following SPA requiring driver to spend time playing hide and seek.

Labels facing down, back or rear of truck costing drivers time.

Putting bulk stop on shelf while dropping multiplue single stops to the floor.

Make the loaders accountable. Then give them a nice raise while adding profit for the stock holders.

 

[kingOFchester]

New FT seniority employees as of the date of ratification will receive a lower starting wage, longer progression and lower top out rate. The company will offer a substantial signing bonus in an effort to get this two-tiered wage system approved.

.

And this would be a disaster for anyone in the top tier. UPS would find anyway possible to get rid of all top tier employees.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Upstate you seem pretty firm on your belief of this two tear wage system coming into place. Where are you getting your information from? Curious...

If you are asking if I have any inside information or anything like that the answer is no. Major companies in other industries have implemented such a system and most if not all have prospered as a result. Have you tried getting a sold sales lead lately? Our price point makes it nearly impossible to do so. It is my personal belief that such a system would bode well for the long term success of the company.

My ex-wife is an RN with 29 years of experience and it was only recently that she began making more than I do. She saves lives--I bring QVC to hoarders.

 

[kingOFchester]

And CEOs rake in millions upon millions and don't save lives. I don't see your point. Would you still be here if the two tier wage system you ALWAYS talk about was implemented and you had to take the pay cut as well?

Or better yet, UPS puts pressure on center manager's to find reasons to fire the upper tier employees??

All over time would be given to the lower tier employees.

 

[brownelf]

If Scott Davis is bringing home more money each year, why shouldn't we expect the same?

 

[brownboxman]

Well, I wouldn't call a full-time job with no threat of being laid of at $33/hour (by contract's end) and free health insurance little to nothing. Who else in the entire universe is going to pay a high school educated, no work skill person $33/hour? Right, the answer is nobody. You'd be lucky to get $15 anywhere else.

Seriously, I can't believe the negative comments about the negotiated rate for the driver job or any 22.3 job (part timers at 8.50 have a gripe). Millions of unemployed people have been starving for a job that pays what their standard of living dictates for 3-4 years now. We as UPS drivers have received raises for that entire time while the professional that made $100,000 a year cannot find a job.

Its too bad that most people are too young to remember the great depression. I am one of them but have studied the history. First, it can happen again and it can happen on a greater scale and greater breath. The last three generations have lived in a fantasy world.

Things can go really bad, really quick especially with the world population approaching 7 billion. I just don't have the feeling that people get this. Count your lucky stars for what you have now because it could change in a blink of an eye.

I'll leave it as this. Things in the past have been bad and through history conflicts and atrocities have only escalated in scope. We think world war II was hell on earth and it was. Just think, the next world conflict will make WWII look like the war of 1812.

Ya' have to live life like today is your last...

This is a very good post. Do I think the corporate greed machine is in full effect at UPS? Yes. Do I think I work very hard for the money I make ? Yes. Am I over compensated compared to the rest of the American workforce taking into acount the level of education needed ? Yes. Sorry the reality is that the job market is terrible. Should we go backward? No But we the hourly workforce at UPS will continue to be the focus of ways to save money, that means do more and do it faster. That is the price we pay for our high level of compensation.

 

[yeldarb]

Because delivering boxes is not a noble profession. I've got to say the mentality a shocking number of you have is pretty disgusting. After you made your money with the company you're prepared to sell out the up and comers and not only that, you are going to lecture us about recessions and feeling bad about wanting more money?

The mentalitity goes both ways. UPS knows how much they profit. They know that Union Pacific is a cheaper way to move freight. They know the post office is a bargain to put the packages on the porch. They are saving hundreds of millions per year by doing this with drivers at 30 bucks an hour. Other companies have NOT recieved the same types of raises we have. The gap is going to get wider in terms of UPS cost of getting a package from point A to B, and give UPS more reason to send more elsewhere. 5 years ago, there was no post office delivering our packages. We send probably 100 trailers through Union Pacific a day, and pick up probably the same being delivered to us. Each of our post offices get 60-120 packages a day. The volume is there to create new full time jobs. The problem is, other companies are creating the full time jobs. A wage freeze for full timers would allow UPS to stay firm on their rates, and that will hurt Fedex and competitors much more than UPS. UPS is more financially run than the others, but UPS will continue to use more contractors to deliver our volume. Earning more more isnt going to help anyone in the long term at UPS. History might show that greed was the downfall of the Teamsters and UPS. I dont understand how the people who want more dont see that?