Contract talks

[yeldarb]

I vaguely remember my on road sup telling me that they didnt get a raise in the last couple years.

 

[kingOFchester]

2010 Scott Davis made 9.5 Million, ( 10,726,019.00 if you include all compensation) Based on just the 9.5 million he made 73% more then he did in 2009.

 

[yeldarb]

They don't have much of a choice do they?

You asked about them foregoing raises. I think they have in the past.

 

[curiousbrain]

I think it is time he takes a pay freeze to ensure the future of the company as well as the teamsters.

This is the economic system we live in - Scott Davis doesn't have to do a damn thing, least of all take a pay cut or freeze; if you really dislike his wage, form a large investment group and purchase shares with voting rights. Is this unrealistic? Perhaps; but, again, this is the reality of the system we live under.

And, to perhaps elaborate on that a little bit, in theory this is why there is a union - to bargain collectively to provide some other avenue other than stock to extract concessions from large businesses. If you feel your union does not represent your interests the way you feel it should, elect new union leaders.

I don't mean to come across as callous or non-caring, but I guess the point I'm trying to make is that as Americans, we have allowed this system to develop - and then we complain when we get shafted by it? The sad reality, for many people, is that this really might be as good as it gets. Not to say you shouldn't fight the good fight, as it were, but to look under the rug that is organized labor and corporate collusion every few years when the contract has to be renegotiated and act shocked, is being a little naive.

 

[menotyou]

Davis has even managed to insure that it is hard to get a vote in during those stockholder meeting. You should read what is written about those meetings.

 

[Brownslave688]

If you look at how Scott Davis is compensated compared to many other CEO he really doesn't make that much. I'm not saying he needs a raise but he doesn't make the ungodly amount some CEO make. On the pay freeze note I have changed my tune a little I would take a pay freeze for the first few years of the contract for a 401k match of 6%. My raises already all go straight to my 401k and this would certainly save the company money because many people would not take advantage of it.

 

[YouKnowWhoIam]

The sense of entitlement some of you have amazes me, especially in today's economic uncertainty. $30+/hr for a job which only requires a HS diploma and a drivers license. Some of you want more even though we continue to lose market share and the package division is no longer the economic engine of the company.

A part-time job is simply that---part time. The vast majority of part time jobs do not offer benefits and those that do offer a benefit package which pales in comparison to ours. However, most of the PTers do not take advantage of their benefits and some would prefer a higher wage in lieu of benefits. I know that if I were still in college and working at UPS part time I would prefer more money rather than benefits and would most likely not join the union, if that option were available, as the level of concern toward PTers is neglible.

I have several items that I would eiither like to see or think will be at least discussed during negotiations:

Part time employees hired on or after the date of ratification will no longer be offered health care benefits but will receive a higher starting wage. All PT employees will receive $1/hr raises each year for the duration of the contract.

New FT seniority employees as of the date of ratification will receive a lower starting wage, longer progression and lower top out rate. The company will offer a substantial signing bonus in an effort to get this two-tiered wage system approved.

Current FT employees will receive raises in line with those in the current agreement.

Healthcare for FT employees will continue to be paid by the company.

Technology will be used for discipline and production standards will be addressed.

Id like to address a few things with you.....

 

[ftballer67]

I'm not going to quote anything here. There's plenty of back in forth, and to think anyone is going to change another's opinion or viewpoint is futile.

To the part timers saying that the pay structure is not fair and their is no opportunity to join the full time ranks, I offer you this:

If the starting wage at UPS was $20/hr for part time, You would of never gotten the job in the first place. The line at the door just to apply would be hundreds long.
You understand why, correct? Because it is well above market for a part time job. Wouldn't it be nice to get a sub 20 hr/week job with no education, training etc, that paid you the same every week as a similar job would pay for a 40 hour work week.

I hear if drivers keep getting raises, UPS will go under, seek different transportation options, lay off, etc, etc, etc. Look at what you're saying. We all know the part timers vastly outnumber the full timers. If that part timers got such significant raises, than why the hell wouldn't it have the same effect?

You want everything to be equal, then let's be equal.

It's nice to WANT a part time job that provides a pension, benefits, and a big paycheck, but it isn't realistic today. You've picked the wrong battle here. The battle you should be partaking in is getting UPS to create more full time jobs. There is plenty of room to do it with combining shifts.... That is if you actually want to be working full time...

I agree completely with your last paragraph. I'd take a full time position (preload/reload) working a split shift as soon as they offered it. Unfortunately I don't think the Union would pursue it. It would cost them dues money as they would now have one employee paying dues rather than two.

 

[Re-Raise]

I agree completely with your last paragraph. I'd take a full time position (preload/reload) working a split shift as soon as they offered it. Unfortunately I don't think the Union would pursue it. It would cost them dues money as they would now have one employee paying dues rather than two.

One of the major focal points during the strike in 97 was the creation of new full-time combination jobs. The company agreed to the new jobs and then failed to provide the jobs because they claimed a drop in volume negated the agreement.

As a driver and a former part-time worker I would love to force them to add more full-time positions. We hate delivering 10+ hours a day while part-timers wait 10+ years to get a chance at full-time.

How can we make it less profitable for UPS to continue to pile the work on the existing drivers? How can we stop the excessive overtime?

 

[CharleyHustle]

If you feel your union does not represent your interests the way you feel it should, elect new union leaders.

The speculation here is that PTers are going to push for RTW and/or stop paying dues. Probably not the best way to get your issues addressed.

In looking at what a new contract might have to offer look at what the union or international and the company wants and what they have agreed to in the past. The union wants a stable long term work group that works hard, causes few problems and makes big bucks which translates into large steady dues payments. that pretty much describes pkg and feeder drivers.

The company wants a moderatly compensated long term work force that deals with multifaceted issues with the customers on a daily basis. These employees need to be safer and much more efficient than comparables in the industry. Once again the driver group.

With the new technology it is really hard to tell the difference between a part timer that has been here 3 weeks or a 5 year vet. As far as it goes it seems to me that UPS has found little difference in quality between long term pters or new hires or if they run the belts slow or jam the pkgs down belts.

No doubt drivers have and have had the upper hand, and like it or not, its because they have stepped up in the past by job performance and union involvement.

One last thought, part time benefits are hardly that. They cost almost as much as full time benefits. It is very difficult for UPS or any company to get enough production out of a part time job to pay for benefits. Those benefits are why the wages in these jobs remain low.

 

[Brownslave688]

There is only one way you have to make overtime cost more double time? Triple time? I don't know what would get it done but that's the only way.

 

[Southwestern]

95% OF ALL DRIVERS WERE WORKING PT HERE TOO

A very much YMMV situation. The majority of drivers I work with (I work in a very large building housing three centers) were hired during an expansion period and never worked an inside shift. Many others worked just a few months. Compare that to what it takes today: a bid closed two weeks ago and the lowest senior guy was 12-years PT.

Is UPS losing money? Who puts up with the fantasy world we are expected to live in once we walk through the UPS guard shack? SHOW ME THE MONEY UPS. 30$/hour for a "no skill" position. What is a "skill"? Show me the long line of college grads who can swim in the cesspool that is UPS. "Skill" is a relative term and not defined by a piece of paper. Work ethic like most can't understand is what it takes to survive at UPS (in general). UPS is making money off your back and you are so scared you're going to give your money back to the company? Numbers don't lie, remember? The numbers say things aren't too bad at UPS. SHOW ME THE MONEY.

What numbers are you referring to? Do you realize that the majority of UPS profit comes from logistics, overseas, etc. and not its domestic small package system (us)?

Are you really naive enough to believe you have a skilled position? I challenge you to name one company that will provide a compensation package similar to that of UPS based upon your skills and experience acquired from years of service.

And BTW... if you really believe the work ethic & environment we deal with every day is unique to UPS and not found throughout the corporate world, then it's YOU who lives in a fantasy world.

 

[Southwestern]

After thinking some more, I do think loaders should get a pay raise. But he held to the same standards as drivers. If the loaders didn't missload, that would save a ton of money that could go towards raises and even profit for UPS.

In my building, the loaders get away with making costly mistakes day in, day out. As a driver, if I was making the same amount of mistakes I would be out of a job.

missloading packages

missloading NDA's

Loading NDA's in load.

Putting a 75lb box on top of a 5lb box and crushing it and its contents.

Not following SPA requiring driver to spend time playing hide and seek.

Labels facing down, back or rear of truck costing drivers time.

Putting bulk stop on shelf while dropping multiplue single stops to the floor.

Make the loaders accountable. Then give them a nice raise while adding profit for the stock holders.

LOL. First off, management DOES hold its part-timers accountable for work performance. You may not see it, but part-timers are regularly given warnings, suspension and -- in some instances -- terminations for missloads, etc.

Secondly, wages influence accountability. Drivers earn hefty compensation packages for unskilled labor, are unlikely to see compensation anywhere near their current level should they lose their job and there's no shortage of job applicants waiting for these positions. For these reasons, UPS knows it can hold drivers accountable for every error. Meanwhile, if UPS fired a part-timer barely grossing $10,000/year for every error, what are they going to replace them with? Another part-timer making similar errors. If UPS wants to attract higher-quality labor it can hold accountable, then it has to ante up.

 

[Re-Raise]

What numbers are you referring to? Do you realize that the majority of UPS profit comes from logistics, overseas, etc. and not its domestic small package system (us)?

Really? US domestic package revenue rose 7.3 % in the last quarter from a year ago resulting in a 30% rise in profit to 1.3 billion.

Am I the only one here who owns stock in this company and reads the earnings reports??

 

[Southwestern]

Really? US domestic package revenue rose 7.3 % in the last quarter from a year ago resulting in a 30% rise in profit to 1.3 billion.

Am I the only one here who owns stock in this company and reads the earnings reports??

Obviously, 4Q results are always the domestic package system's strongest.

Nonetheless,
-yes, growth in the domestic small package system lagged behind other areas of the company.
-for the whole year, the operating profit of the small package system is a fraction of the company
-for the year, volume growth was up only slightly
-how much of the volume growth, revenue growth & profit within the small package system can be attributed to SurePost?

So, what part of my original statement was wrong?

 

[kingOFchester]

Really? US domestic package revenue rose 7.3 % in the last quarter from a year ago resulting in a 30% rise in profit to 1.3 billion.

Am I the only one here who owns stock in this company and reads the earnings reports??

I like to hedge my bets. I buy Fedex stock. If UPS does real well, better contracts and stable job. If UPS goes in the toilet, I will have a ton $'s in fedex.

 

[Southwestern]

Southwestern - what would you propose would be fair compensation for "accountable" PT workers with the benefits they currently receive?

UPS controls the benefits for the majority of the PTers. It's self-insured and the actual cost of the benefits (the fees passed onto the managing carriers, such as BSCS, Aetna, etc.) is minimal (a few hundred dollars). Only when claims are paid out do the benefits become costly. The benefits have little appeal to the primary PT hiring pool (young). UPS would be better off hiking up the wages and diluting the benefits/charge a portion of the premium to participate.

 

[Re-Raise]

Obviously, 4Q results are always the domestic package system's strongest.

Nonetheless,
-yes, growth in the domestic small package system lagged behind other areas of the company.
-for the whole year, the operating profit of the small package system is a fraction of the company
-for the year, volume growth was up only slightly
-how much of the volume growth, revenue growth & profit within the small package system can be attributed to SurePost?

So, what part of my original statement was wrong?

Uggh. The corporate line on surepost is that is volume we are GAINING that would have otherwise gone to the USPS or through Fed Ex Smart Post.

Do you somehow believe that the delivery of packages is insignificant to UPS profits? It is the engine that allows all the other branches within UPS to exist.

What is the point you are trying to make?

 

[kingOFchester]

LOL. First off, management DOES hold its part-timers accountable for work performance. You may not see it, but part-timers are regularly given warnings, suspension and -- in some instances -- terminations for missloads, etc.

Secondly, wages influence accountability. Drivers earn hefty compensation packages for unskilled labor, are unlikely to see compensation anywhere near their current level should they lose their job and there's no shortage of job applicants waiting for these positions. For these reasons, UPS knows it can hold drivers accountable for every error. Meanwhile, if UPS fired a part-timer barely grossing $10,000/year for every error, what are they going to replace them with? Another part-timer making similar errors. If UPS wants to attract higher-quality labor it can hold accountable, then it has to ante up.

Starting to sound like my ex wife. I say up, you say down. I say black, you say white. I got it.

First off, I worked the pre-load. 2nd off, in my building...my center the preload is not held to the same standards as drivers. There is one preloader that has been working for over a year now. He is good for atleast 5 missloads per truck a DAY.

3rd off, until you drive you have no business commenting on what skills are needed.

Here you say "Meanwhile, if UPS fired a part-timer barely grossing $10,000/year for every error, what are they going to replace them with? Another part-timer making similar errors. If UPS wants to attract higher-quality labor it can hold accountable, then it has to ante up"

Thats what I said ...pay them more......but hold them more accountable. You are so set on being argumentive, that you don't see that you just stated the same thing I did.

A good portion of the loaders I know are getting paid what they are worth. When I have to deliver 3 miss loads to 3 different area's and that takes me an extra 45 minutes to an hour do to driving all over Gods creation that is costing the company a lot of money at 45+ an hour not including fuel and other expenses.

Again, according to your statement you agree with me. Pay more and get better workers. In my building, if you got a pulse you got a job. If you want to drive, you need a hell of a lot more then a pulse.

If and when you drive, you can comment on what it takes. Until then, perhaps it is reasonable you speak of which you know.

 

[Re-Raise]

Obviously, 4Q results are always the domestic package system's strongest.

That is why they compare the 4th quarter of this year to the .... wait for it..... the 4th quarter of last year.