Are Unions ethical?


  • Total voters
    31

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
I guess, but its only still going because people are responding to this idiot. What needed to be said was said in the first 2 pages. We're on 7 now lol.
His responses to me have seemed pretty sincere, so I am responding to give him the benefit of the doubt. It takes some tenacity to get through to some people.
 

Proud To Be A Scab

Commie Unionists are Traitors
Grievances are the legitimate means of enforcing the contract. Grievances are not acts of violence, they pose no threat to any member of management, thus they are not a form intimidation. Now, if you had proof that said steward were making threats of physical violence, that would be intimidation and coercion, and if he were using compromising photos of members of management to get them to do something against their will, that would be an example of blackmail.

You are upset that the steward is doing the one thing he is supposed to do, and mischaracterizing it as something illegal or unethical. You clearly have no clue how union/management relations work, neither do you understand employment laws, nor criminal laws for that matter.

Don't join the union, that's your right, but don't let your lack of understanding cause you to slander unions or the steward who is just doing his duty.
The steward has openly talked about exercising his "2 A rights" at work. That is indeed a veiled threat given the context and circumstances of making such comments.
 

Proud To Be A Scab

Commie Unionists are Traitors
Then keep stealing what the Union negotiated for, but don't ever lecture anyone on the NAP, since you yourself are openly violating it.

You could join the Union and become one of those good members...
Actually I'm not violating anything since everything is being done VOLUNTARILY.

Maybe you misunderstand my avatar
 

Sudz

Well-Known Member
Actually I'm not violating anything since everything is being done VOLUNTARILY.

Maybe you misunderstand my avatar
I understand perfectly. UPS is contractually obligated to pay certain wages, provide certain benefits, and maintain a certain work environment. A contract negotiated by the IBT. A contract that contains a provision stating that only members of the bargaining unit may perform work.

Every advocate of the NAP I've ever seen always held a high regard for private, voluntary contracts, which is what the relationship between UPS and the Teamsters consists of. It was James E. Casey, one of UPS' founders, who invited the Teamsters to come and organize his employees.

UPS violates the contract fairly routinely, but that doesn't diminish your culpability. You're a freeloader. You're stealing the difference in wages and benefits that the Teamsters were able to negotiate. And worse, you can't even negotiate your own pay or your own benefits because anti-voluntaryist politicians created RTW laws which force companies to provide the same compensation and representation to non-unionized employees. Now, your very employment as non-management personnel indicates a violation of the contract by both UPS and yourself.

So you're a hypocrite. You're not a voluntaryist. You're proudly supporting and benefiting from the actions of an even greater bully, an even more dangerous gang than the Teamsters could ever be: The Government.
 

Proud To Be A Scab

Commie Unionists are Traitors
I understand perfectly. UPS is contractually obligated to pay certain wages, provide certain benefits, and maintain a certain work environment. A contract negotiated by the IBT. A contract that contains a provision stating that only members of the bargaining unit may perform work.

Every advocate of the NAP I've ever seen always held a high regard for private, voluntary contracts, which is what the relationship between UPS and the Teamsters consists of. It was James E. Casey, one of UPS' founders, who invited the Teamsters to come and organize his employees.

UPS violates the contract fairly routinely, but that doesn't diminish your culpability. You're a freeloader. You're stealing the difference in wages and benefits that the Teamsters were able to negotiate. And worse, you can't even negotiate your own pay or your own benefits because anti-voluntaryist politicians created RTW laws which force companies to provide the same compensation and representation to non-unionized employees. Now, your very employment as non-management personnel indicates a violation of the contract by both UPS and yourself.

So you're a hypocrite. You're not a voluntaryist. You're proudly supporting and benefiting from the actions of an even greater bully, an even more dangerous gang than the Teamsters could ever be: The Government.
That's funny that you equate government and the teamsters as being on opposite sides of the political spectrum. It's teamsters that do the bidding of big government by casting votes the way they do.

I've known my entire life that a union thug is a LEFTIST big government leech. That's how it's always been, is, and always will be. Pick up a few history books, that aren't one sided biased neoliberal nonsense, if you need an education on union history of violence.

Teamsters are notorious for being violent leftists and here you are attempting to construe an alternate reality.. LoL!
 

BadIdeaGuy

Coronavirus? What coronavirus?
That's funny that you equate government and the teamsters as being on opposite sides of the political spectrum. It's teamsters that do the bidding of bug government by casting votes the way they do.

I've known my entire life that a union thug is a LEFTIST big government leech. That's how it's always been, is, and always will be.

Teamsters are notorious for being violent leftists and here you are attempting to construe an alternate reality.. LoL!
No trolling on the Lord's Day.
Come back tomorrow.
 

OrioN

double tap o da horn dooshbag
Nooooo, I want to see the update on Monday... Geezus, I repeatedly said the same thing from page 2 when I looked back on this.
 

Trailer monkey

Well-Known Member
So...there's a drunk on the preload.

Wreaks of alcohol.
Carries a flask.
Has a hard time seeing package labels.
Nearly runs over employees in the parking lot while coming into work.
Boasts about his alcoholism.
Admits to being under the influence of alcohol and cannabis while on the clock. etc.

Management wants him gone, however the union steward is threatening reprisal via grievance against management's actions if they fire the belligerant drunk.

I've already let HR know and they became defensive the moment I mentioned the steward defending the drunk. The HR rep implied I was a conspiracy theorist (I go from calm to enraged like a 3000hp dragster when called that) for even mentioning that the steward is defending the drunk from being fired.

What gives? The drunk at work poses a danger to the workers. He's been arguing with several preloaders. Not one preloader has anything good to say about him. The preload general consensus is they want him gone. Management wants him gone.

The only reason why he's allowed to continue working while drunk is because he's a gang member (union member) and the steward has been very intimidating via raising his voice and threatening grievances if management does their job of employment termination like they're supposed to.
The union has a legal obligation to represent him. They even have to represent dickless, lowlife scum sucking scabs
 
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